First Base Station Antenna


David Moen
 

Hello Dr Jim,

Thank you for your guidance. Setting up the base station next week, as I will order an antenna this week. Looking forward to getting on the air.

Diamond Antenna D3000N - Diamond Antenna D3000N Super Discone Antennas

https://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/dmn-d3000n_xl.jpg

73


David Moen
 

Hello Doug,

Thank you for your guidance. My call sign is KI5KFA. Will have to try getting onto the repeaters. 

It's good to see everyone's response.


David Moen
 

Hello Timothy,

Thank you for your guidance. I purchased one this evening. 


k5lxp@...
 

Antenna gain and coax loss are absolutely factors in station performance but line of sight, dictated by antenna height (HAAT) will be the dominant factor in a given station's effective range.  No amount of power or antenna gain can manufacture range, only height can do that.  Yes, enough feedline loss could ultimately overcome signal strength and effective range.  But factoring typical system and path losses for a basic V/U FM station, you are far and away better off to have a high antenna with some feedline loss vs a low antenna with little feedline loss.  

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM


Anthony Luscre <k8zt73@...>
 

But you are not calculating in the gain of the antenna or antenna height.
On 2M/440 on Diamond v200 that would be +6.2dB/+8.4dB.
Even if the power is a complete wash and equal to the rubber duck the height above ground will make a tremendous difference on VHF/UHF as well as being outside the house.

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 6:06 PM Doug - AB7DG - Tacoma WA <schafer@...> wrote:
Well, Mark, I wonder about that.  According to https://kv5r.com/ham-radio/coax-loss-calculator/ , the loss in 100' of RG-8X coax at the upper end of the 70cm band (450MHz) is 8.281 dB if the SWR is 1.0:1, and increases to 8.455 dB if the SWR is 1.5:1. So with his 5 W HT connected to that coax, his output power is 0.743 W if SWR is 1.0:1, and only 0.714 W if SWR is 1.5:1. He loses 85 - 86% of his HT's power.

The specs for a Comet GP-3 base antenna show a 7.2 dBi gain on 70cm, and for a similar Diamond X50A a 7.2 dB gain on 70cm. So the gain from those base antennas does not make up for the coax loss (but if his HOA allows the antenna at significant height, he may improve his coverage nontheless).
https://cometantenna.com/amateur-radio/base-antennas/ba-dual-band/
https://diamondantenna.net/Product_Catalog/base_station.html

Mr. Moen might first try the inexpensive 34 - 37" HT antennaes, such as the Pryme AL-800 (5.6dB@440MHz) or the Diamond RH770 (5.5dB@430MHz).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687288231.html
https://www.amazon.com/SAM-Male-Transceiver-Telescopic-Antenna-Extendable/dp/B0753GK1NS/

Doug Schafer, AB7DG, Tacoma. WA



--
Anthony Luscre

K8ZT
Assistant Ohio Section Manager for Education Outreach
ARRL - The National Association For Amateur Radio™
 
a@... (best for Education & Technology)
k8zt@... (best for Amateur Radio)

The Web Resource Hoarder- www.ZTLearn.com
Web Resource Hoarder Blog

K8ZT Radio Website- www.k8zt.com
My Radio Blog- k8zt.blogspot.com


Doug - AB7DG - Tacoma WA
 

Well, Mark, I wonder about that.  According to https://kv5r.com/ham-radio/coax-loss-calculator/ , the loss in 100' of RG-8X coax at the upper end of the 70cm band (450MHz) is 8.281 dB if the SWR is 1.0:1, and increases to 8.455 dB if the SWR is 1.5:1. So with his 5 W HT connected to that coax, his output power is 0.743 W if SWR is 1.0:1, and only 0.714 W if SWR is 1.5:1. He loses 85 - 86% of his HT's power.

The specs for a Comet GP-3 base antenna show a 7.2 dBi gain on 70cm, and for a similar Diamond X50A a 7.2 dB gain on 70cm. So the gain from those base antennas does not make up for the coax loss (but if his HOA allows the antenna at significant height, he may improve his coverage nontheless).
https://cometantenna.com/amateur-radio/base-antennas/ba-dual-band/
https://diamondantenna.net/Product_Catalog/base_station.html

Mr. Moen might first try the inexpensive 34 - 37" HT antennaes, such as the Pryme AL-800 (5.6dB@440MHz) or the Diamond RH770 (5.5dB@430MHz).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687288231.html
https://www.amazon.com/SAM-Male-Transceiver-Telescopic-Antenna-Extendable/dp/B0753GK1NS/

Doug Schafer, AB7DG, Tacoma. WA


k5lxp@...
 

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 06:18 PM, Doug - AB7DG - Tacoma WA wrote:
(3) I doubt that connecting your HT to a base station antenna would accomplish much...your HT's signal will be severely attenuated by the antenna's feed line unless you have a very short, or very expensive, feed line.
It would take an especially long, or especially lossy feedline to overcome the signal increase by putting an antenna in a better location (e.g. roof).  One can come up with a loss number that would negate installing a given antenna configuration but it's not likely that you would encounter this in any typical residential installation.  A unity gain or nominal gain antenna on the roof and say up to 100' of moderate loss line like 8X is still a very useful antenna installation for most FM operating, most certainly better than a rubber duck on the radio inside a house.  

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM


Doug - AB7DG - Tacoma WA
 

(1) I suggest including your call sign in your posts, so readers can easily identify your location. Perhaps you're KI5KFA  in Willis, TX.
https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchAmateur.jsp

(2) Unless you're communicating line-of-sight with another HT operator, your 5W HT needs to connect to a higher-power repeater that will repeat your signal to a much greater area, and will relay any responses to you. If you are KI5KFA, then there are 10 FM repeaters near Conroe, TX that you may be able to hit with your HT. Most likely, some of those repeaters will host regularly scheduled nets that you might be welcome to participate in.
https://repeaterbook.com/repeaters/location_search.php?state_id=48&type=city&loc=Conroe

(3) I doubt that connecting your HT to a base station antenna would accomplish much. Recognize that on the 2M and 70cm band frequencies, your HT's signal will be severely attenuated by the antenna's feed line unless you have a very short, or very expensive, feed line.  My first, and perfectly adequate, base antenna for my FT-991A (100W) was a $35 J-pole that I bought at a hamfest, but the 50-ft feed line to my rooftop mount was about $100.(Altelix AX600).


Timothy Page
 

https://n9taxlabs.com/shop/ols/products/dual-band-slim-jim-antenna-with-10-or-16-foot-cable

Get one of these and hang it on a curtain rod or better yet in a tree outside


Timothy M Page K0EON 
1209 NW 18th Street
Blue Springs, MO 64015

(209)482-7001


On Apr 25, 2022, at 17:07, David Moen via groups.arrl.org <davidmoen=icloud.com@...> wrote:


Hello,

Getting started with my first HT a Yaesu FT-3DR with an upgraded Diamond antenna. 

Simplex seems dead as I have only made a few passing contacts.

So, I am interested in buying a base station antenna to use my HT. 

Wanted to ask for some guidance. 

Best Regards



Dr Jim Kennedy
 
Edited

I have found the discone antenna because of its gain and wide frequency coverage.
73, Doc - K2PHD


k5lxp@...
 

Careful what you ask for there, HOA's are not your friend.  I've always gone the forgiveness is easier than permission route.  I have several groundplanes made from mobile whips and from a couple dozen feet a way you can't even see them.  A mobile whip has a pretty small profile and would be easy to mount most anywhere, so that could even be a final solution if that's all you could get away with. The Diamond/Comet colinears are decent antennas though, if you can put one of those on the roof you will be doing pretty well for basic FM simplex and repeater operation.  In terms of coverage (range) height trumps all, so if you have a choice of a "good" antenna mounted low or an "OK" antenna mounted high, take the higher one.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM


David Moen
 

Hello Mark,

Starting with a mobile antenna seems like a good approach, as I am waiting for a response from my HOA about putting up an antenna.

73


David Moen
 

Hello Anthony,

Thank you for your guidance.

Looking into the Diamond V2000.

73


k5lxp@...
 

Pretty much any antenna outside will be better than the one on the radio.  Even a mobile antenna like a mag mount or trunk lip mount put up on a roof or outside a window will be an improvement.  Not a lot of folks listen on simplex, might be better to hang out on a few repeaters first to make some acquaintances, and get familiar with the band and FM operating in general.
 
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM


Anthony Luscre <k8zt73@...>
 

A dual or triband fiberglass vertical would be my first choice
image.png

On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 6:07 PM David Moen via groups.arrl.org <davidmoen=icloud.com@...> wrote:
Hello,

Getting started with my first HT a Yaesu FT-3DR with an upgraded Diamond antenna. 

Simplex seems dead as I have only made a few passing contacts.

So, I am interested in buying a base station antenna to use my HT. 

Wanted to ask for some guidance. 

Best Regards




--
Anthony Luscre

K8ZT
Assistant Ohio Section Manager for Education Outreach
ARRL - The National Association For Amateur Radio™
 
a@... (best for Education & Technology)
k8zt@... (best for Amateur Radio)

The Web Resource Hoarder- www.ZTLearn.com
Web Resource Hoarder Blog

K8ZT Radio Website- www.k8zt.com
My Radio Blog- k8zt.blogspot.com


David Moen
 
Edited

Hello,
 
Getting started with my first HT a Yaesu FT-3DR with an upgraded Diamond antenna. 
 
Simplex seems dead as I have only made a few passing contacts.
 
So, I am interested in buying a base station antenna to use my HT. 
 
Wanted to ask for some guidance. 
 
73

KI5KFA