Field Day log checking
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Reading the 2019 Field Day results, something just occurred to me. The QSOs we submitted were 1078. In the listing for W4TA (3A), I see 1078 listed in the QSOs column. While I would hope we were that accurate, that is just not likely at all.
Is the number in the results the submitted number of QSOs or the corrected number after log checking? Is a Log Checking Report possible for Field Day? Our score is 200 less than I expected but since it is exactly 200 less, that seems more likely a bonus point issue than any score reductions. It would be nice to know what bonus points were disallowed or what led to the score reduction so if I made an error, I do not repeat it again. I ask as if the QSOs counts are not log checked, that sort of negates any reason to print a top ten score box (page one of the article). If this is not checked like a contest (since this is most definitely, 100% not a contest), why do we put the Top 10 score. And for those just waiting to pounce...sure, Field Day is not a contest, OK. But we do have points and all so I am curious about the listing. Thanks, Tom NY4I |
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Hello Tom,
Thanks for asking.
Field Day is not a contest (it’s a communications exercise), and as such it is not adjudicated (so there is no log checking).
I’ll email you separately regarding the scoring.
Thanks for participating!
73,
Bart Jahnke, W9JJ Radiosport and Field Services Manager
ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street Newington CT 06111-1400 Telephone: 860-594-0272 Fax: 860-594-0346
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...>
On Behalf Of Tom Schaefer NY4I
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2019 2:10 PM To: ARRL-Contesting@... Subject: [ARRL-Contesting] Field Day log checking
Reading the 2019 Field Day results, something just occurred to me. The QSOs we submitted were 1078. In the listing for W4TA (3A), I see 1078 listed in the QSOs column. While I would hope we were that accurate, that is just not likely at
all. |
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Thanks I never knew that. I will not pay any attention to the top ten then as that is not checked so really valid.
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I also added wrong so the score in QST is exactly what I submitted including bonus points). Regards, Tom NY4I
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Not a contest in rules only. What a joke! Everybody else certainly acts as though it were.
Outlook Laptop Gil W0MN Hierro Candente Batir de Repente 44.08226N 92.51265 W en34rb
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Tom Schaefer NY4I
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2019 13:28 To: ARRL-Contesting@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Contesting] Field Day log checking
Thanks I never knew that. I will not pay any attention to the top ten then as that is not checked so really valid.
I also added wrong so the score in QST is exactly what I submitted including bonus points).
Regards,
Tom NY4I
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Without this devolving into the obvious taking of sides, my answer to that is that Field Day is a communications exercise up until the first contact. If your intention is to show you can setup antennas and radios in a field —running on emergency power--and make an HF contact, then after that first contact, you have proved the point. Everything after that is a contest.
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But seriously, it can be both. We use skills to setup and help foster new operators to pickup contesting. I suspect I am not the only one that started contesting because of Field Day. So while I understand it is a communications exercise, it is a bit disingenuous to not also call it a contest as there is that part of it (otherwise why do we have different points for CW/Digital and phone). As with far too many things in amateur radio, we seem to always want to paint things as either/or versus with the plurality of a communications exercise/contest. Tom NY4I
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Tom Taormina
It is not a contest, but it is how many of us got our start in contesting. Someone took me to Field Day 1958 and I was hooked
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Bart Jahnke
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2019 11:16 AM To: ARRL-Contesting@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Contesting] Field Day log checking
Hello Tom,
Thanks for asking.
Field Day is not a contest (it’s a communications exercise), and as such it is not adjudicated (so there is no log checking).
I’ll email you separately regarding the scoring.
Thanks for participating!
73,
Bart Jahnke, W9JJ Radiosport and Field Services Manager
ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street Newington CT 06111-1400 Telephone: 860-594-0272 Fax: 860-594-0346
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Tom Schaefer NY4I
Reading the 2019 Field Day results, something just occurred to me. The QSOs we submitted were 1078. In the listing for W4TA (3A), I see 1078 listed in the QSOs column. While I would hope we were that accurate, that is just not likely at all. |
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Dave N2OA
Think of it as an exercise where you learn how to setup a station and maybe more importantly keep it on the air under adverse conditions and teach/learn the basics of contesting. Dave N2OA On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 2:57 PM Tom Taormina <tom@...> wrote:
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Chuck Williams
Oh yes... The "Not a Contest- Exercise" (read contest-Hi-Hi), that keeps every non-WARC HF Band FILLED with wall to wall contacts around the clock,and lets me make several hundred other hams happy evry "last weekend in June, because I'm in the (dare I say it...) RARE MULT" of Wyoming. After several hours of hand writing my non LOTW QSL requests following Field Day,...believe me when I say that it sure feels like a contest! "If it walks like a Duck..." 73, N7MZW Chuck Williams Cheyenne, WY. On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 1:09 PM Dave N2OA <kdcarlso@...> wrote:
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I’m from the old school. Field Day was and always will be a contest, but of a different sort. It isn’t SS or CQWW but it isn’t SET either. SET is a communications exercise to demonstrate emergency preparedness.
Back in the day, I was a member of the Connecticut Wireless Association (CWA). Many of the members were ARRL HQ staffers including W1BDI, W1NJM, W1ECH, W1XX, W1JMY and others (oh, W1BGD in those days). In those days (1960-1975), FD was a competition.
CWA took FD as a very serious contesting effort. We planned much of the year for it. One member, W2ADE, invented the octopus which allowed multiple rigs on the air but preventing simultaneous transmission so we had 9 radios with 3 in a “pod” so we were legit 3A.
We were consistently in the top 5 3A if not number 1 nationally.
Fast forward to today. When did FD stop being a “contest”? I suspect it has everything to do with ARRL HQ resources to treat it as such and there isn’t enough to go around.
Pete, W1RM W1RM@...
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Tom Taormina
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2019 2:57 PM To: ARRL-Contesting@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Contesting] Field Day log checking
It is not a contest, but it is how many of us got our start in contesting. Someone took me to Field Day 1958 and I was hooked
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Bart Jahnke
Hello Tom,
Thanks for asking.
Field Day is not a contest (it’s a communications exercise), and as such it is not adjudicated (so there is no log checking).
I’ll email you separately regarding the scoring.
Thanks for participating!
73,
Bart Jahnke, W9JJ Radiosport and Field Services Manager
ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street Newington CT 06111-1400 Telephone: 860-594-0272 Fax: 860-594-0346
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Tom Schaefer NY4I
Reading the 2019 Field Day results, something just occurred to me. The QSOs we submitted were 1078. In the listing for W4TA (3A), I see 1078 listed in the QSOs column. While I would hope we were that accurate, that is just not likely at all. |
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Tom Taormina
TDXS was all-in with FD for many years. Multiple towers, fierce competition for operating time, but also the training ground for the up-and-coming contesters.
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Pete W1RM
Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:11 AM To: ARRL-Contesting@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Contesting] Field Day log checking
I’m from the old school. Field Day was and always will be a contest, but of a different sort. It isn’t SS or CQWW but it isn’t SET either. SET is a communications exercise to demonstrate emergency preparedness.
Back in the day, I was a member of the Connecticut Wireless Association (CWA). Many of the members were ARRL HQ staffers including W1BDI, W1NJM, W1ECH, W1XX, W1JMY and others (oh, W1BGD in those days). In those days (1960-1975), FD was a competition.
CWA took FD as a very serious contesting effort. We planned much of the year for it. One member, W2ADE, invented the octopus which allowed multiple rigs on the air but preventing simultaneous transmission so we had 9 radios with 3 in a “pod” so we were legit 3A.
We were consistently in the top 5 3A if not number 1 nationally.
Fast forward to today. When did FD stop being a “contest”? I suspect it has everything to do with ARRL HQ resources to treat it as such and there isn’t enough to go around.
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Tom Taormina
It is not a contest, but it is how many of us got our start in contesting. Someone took me to Field Day 1958 and I was hooked
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Bart Jahnke
Hello Tom,
Thanks for asking.
Field Day is not a contest (it’s a communications exercise), and as such it is not adjudicated (so there is no log checking).
I’ll email you separately regarding the scoring.
Thanks for participating!
73,
Bart Jahnke, W9JJ Radiosport and Field Services Manager
ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street Newington CT 06111-1400 Telephone: 860-594-0272 Fax: 860-594-0346
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Tom Schaefer NY4I
Reading the 2019 Field Day results, something just occurred to me. The QSOs we submitted were 1078. In the listing for W4TA (3A), I see 1078 listed in the QSOs column. While I would hope we were that accurate, that is just not likely at all. |
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FD has power multipiers and bonus point
categories but sections/states are not mults. Nor are actual logs
submitted, so there is no adjudication [log checking]. Different
folks view FD differently. If you keep score, some say it's
automatically a contest. The one thing FD definitely provides is
a chance to experience HF, CW, and SSB for clubs/hams that are
mainly shack-on-the-belt oriented. It's also been the spark for a
great number of young folk over the years, which is good, so
whether or not it is a contest is somewhat of an empty argument.
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73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 11/8/2019 12:24 PM, Chuck Williams
wrote:
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Gary Hinson <Gary@...>
How come ARRL FD has to be EITHER an emergency exercise OR a contest? It’s not a binary choice!
Some people and clubs enjoy the competitive aspect, aiming for a podium finish. Some enjoy a day out in the country. Some are happy to dust off the genny, check the tent for mouse holes, cook up bacon sarnies and sip a small glass of sherry. Some go along to participate in club activities, or “help out”, or find out what this contesting lark is all about. Some take the opportunity to catch up with pals. Some need the practice (as we’ve probably all heard!) and others are happy to teach. Some relish the chance to show off and test their latest construction effort, or try out a new antenna configuration, or discover what the bands used to sound like before a gazillion switchmode nasties invaded the planet. Some do it because they’ve always done it, enjoyed themselves doing it for years, and wouldn’t countenance not doing it. Some get dragged along, strong-armed to participate as the club’s only half-decent CW op, or the only one with a portable barbie. Some do the dragging, and hope to infect others with the FD bug, or find/make new contesters. Some just love planning and organizing things, like a military operation. Some like to be led. Some want to demonstrate how to start a fire with a flint, or put up a makeshift bivouac with nothing more than a length of RG58 and a few pine branches, or hold off a pack of wolves by whistling CQ.
It's all of the above, and more.
Some of us enjoy FD because we’ve done some of that, and just love telling stories around the camp fire.
73 Gary ZL2iFB
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Tom Taormina
Sent: 10 November 2019 08:17 To: ARRL-Contesting@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Contesting] Field Day log checking
TDXS was all-in with FD for many years. Multiple towers, fierce competition for operating time, but also the training ground for the up-and-coming contesters.
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Pete W1RM
I’m from the old school. Field Day was and always will be a contest, but of a different sort. It isn’t SS or CQWW but it isn’t SET either. SET is a communications exercise to demonstrate emergency preparedness.
Back in the day, I was a member of the Connecticut Wireless Association (CWA). Many of the members were ARRL HQ staffers including W1BDI, W1NJM, W1ECH, W1XX, W1JMY and others (oh, W1BGD in those days). In those days (1960-1975), FD was a competition.
CWA took FD as a very serious contesting effort. We planned much of the year for it. One member, W2ADE, invented the octopus which allowed multiple rigs on the air but preventing simultaneous transmission so we had 9 radios with 3 in a “pod” so we were legit 3A.
We were consistently in the top 5 3A if not number 1 nationally.
Fast forward to today. When did FD stop being a “contest”? I suspect it has everything to do with ARRL HQ resources to treat it as such and there isn’t enough to go around.
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Tom Taormina
It is not a contest, but it is how many of us got our start in contesting. Someone took me to Field Day 1958 and I was hooked
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Bart Jahnke
Hello Tom,
Thanks for asking.
Field Day is not a contest (it’s a communications exercise), and as such it is not adjudicated (so there is no log checking).
I’ll email you separately regarding the scoring.
Thanks for participating!
73,
Bart Jahnke, W9JJ Radiosport and Field Services Manager
ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio® 225 Main Street Newington CT 06111-1400 Telephone: 860-594-0272 Fax: 860-594-0346
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Tom Schaefer NY4I
Reading the 2019 Field Day results, something just occurred to me. The QSOs we submitted were 1078. In the listing for W4TA (3A), I see 1078 listed in the QSOs column. While I would hope we were that accurate, that is just not likely at all. |
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I don’t remember when logs didn’t have to be submitted. I remember laboring over dupe checking our logs before submitting them.
Pete, W1RM W1RM@...
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Skip
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 3:13 PM To: ARRL-Contesting@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Contesting] Field Day log checking
FD has power multipiers and bonus point categories but sections/states are not mults. Nor are actual logs submitted, so there is no adjudication [log checking]. Different folks view FD differently. If you keep score, some say it's automatically a contest. The one thing FD definitely provides is a chance to experience HF, CW, and SSB for clubs/hams that are mainly shack-on-the-belt oriented. It's also been the spark for a great number of young folk over the years, which is good, so whether or not it is a contest is somewhat of an empty argument. On 11/8/2019 12:24 PM, Chuck Williams wrote:
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Tom Taormina
In summation, and hoping this thread dies, FD has different meanings for each ham and it likely has something for everyone.
Keep and open mind. In 2006, we entered 4E with natural power, running the stations on a biodiesel generator!
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Pete W1RM
Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2019 2:04 PM To: ARRL-Contesting@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Contesting] Field Day log checking
I don’t remember when logs didn’t have to be submitted. I remember laboring over dupe checking our logs before submitting them.
From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of Skip
FD has power multipiers and bonus point categories but sections/states are not mults. Nor are actual logs submitted, so there is no adjudication [log checking]. Different folks view FD differently. If you keep score, some say it's automatically a contest. The one thing FD definitely provides is a chance to experience HF, CW, and SSB for clubs/hams that are mainly shack-on-the-belt oriented. It's also been the spark for a great number of young folk over the years, which is good, so whether or not it is a contest is somewhat of an empty argument. On 11/8/2019 12:24 PM, Chuck Williams wrote:
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I’ll end my part here. I have always participated with groups that enjoyed the competitiveness of it but also had no issue stopping to let new people take all the time they need on the stations (without relegating them to the GOTA staton so we could keep our rate up). The non-competition part of Field Day is paramount to me but it introduces people to this style of operating and they may later participate in other “official” contests.
My point was that for those that would go with only their best operators and shun slowing down for new people (or not spending time to introduce the public to ham radio), they are adding a level of competitiveness to it that I now see is NOT warranted. If the logs are not checked, then the scores are simply by one’s honor. We know that does not work well in contests (sadly). So, Field Day lets us be competitive, social and mentoring but being concerned about ones score as compared to any other station in the section, state, division is quite pointless. Hence my point that having a Top Ten score list is nonsensical. The post I agree with the most is Pete W1RM’s opinion, “When did FD stop being a “contest”? I suspect it has everything to do with ARRL HQ resources to treat it as such and there isn’t enough to go around.” Running log checking like a real contest perhaps would require more resources than the league wants to dedicate to it. Certainly its right but perhaps a disclaimer on the scores that the printed totals are not log checked would be good. Thanks for the lively discussion and I hope to see you soon in a non-contest at the end of January and June. 73, Tom Schaefer, NY4I Blog: www.ny4i.com Madeira Beach, FL (Grid: EL87ot) |
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Chuck Williams
Yes... before this thread becomes an entire cotton Tee shirt, I stand corrected on my previous comment.Wyoming is not a "Mult" during Field Day. I was simply confused after responding to a shoe box full of "snail mail" QSL cards that invariably always begin with the comment... "Thanks for the Wyoming contact...." I have always enjoyed Field Day, while operating from a leaky tent, or from the warm comfort of my home QTH.. however we elect to define it. N7MZW Chuck Cheyenne, Wyoming On Sat, Nov 9, 2019, 3:21 PM Tom Taormina <tom@...> wrote:
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I did an article for NCJ, I think in 1990, called "The Joy of Field Day" and felt back then it was an operating event, not a contest. If you get a bunch of contesters together, anything can be a contest - but I think the majority of FD groups have a minority of ops being contesters.
One way you can tell that the League does not consider it a contest is the fact that QST still prints the full line scores!
73 John K3TN
-- 73 John K3TN |
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Jack Schuster <w1wef3@...>
Hi John. I always knew that logs were not checked and never considered it a contest but always enjoyed wowing the non contesters showing them how a contester racks up Qs vs the non contester! hi I was a member of Ct Wireless Assn back in the day, and did FD with that club which included George Hart who always said it wasn't a contest, but we sure treated it like one! ( I think George may have been the guy who invented FD). In 2018 however I volunteered to submit the log for the club I was with because the usual guy who loves N3FJP and was more familiar with it wasn't there. I never got so much BS from the league over submission, to the point where our score wasn't published because I couldn't prove that we checked dupes. It would be easier if they required a Cabrillo file like contests. 73 JACK W1WEF
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They do accept Cabrillo files instead of a dupe sheet —plus the summary. Now that I have learned they do no log checking, I have no idea why they require either.
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Tom NY4I
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Hi, Jack - my usual FD gang is a bunch of non-contesters. I do manage to convince them to call CQ but haven't been able to convert any of them to contesting. In fact, one of them refuses to believe there are no mults in FD - he will slooowly S&P and not respond to a CQ if he remembers working that Section before!
Not surprisingly, we are never competitive...
I think you can just send the Cabrillo file now in lieu of a dupe sheet, but does seem silly to be required if dupes aren't being removed.
73 John K3TN
-- 73 John K3TN |
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