Re: ARRL semi annual event??

Gary Hinson

Friends, there is a separate ARRL reflector for LoTW stuffCriticisms of LoTW, especially constructive criticisms and bright ideas about what we can do to make things better for the wider ham community, are worth raising and debating over there.



Gary  ZL2iFB 


From: ARRL-Contesting@... <ARRL-Contesting@...> On Behalf Of W0MU
Sent: 14 January 2020 13:57
To: ARRL-Contesting@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Contesting] ARRL semi annual event??


Fine.  It works great.  Carry on.

On 1/13/2020 5:52 PM, Ria, N2RJ wrote:

Before PayPal can take money from my bank account, they make test deposits and confirm it. Before your employer deposits your paycheck they may make a prenote ($0 test deposit) to your bank so that they verify the account as valid.


Sure, you can send with your email address but that is long after the bank and PayPal has verified who you are and verified your bank account as valid.


With all that in place I really have a hard time believing that LoTW is nearly as complicated. It isn’t. 







On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 7:20 PM W0MU <w0mu@...> wrote:

I can move and send money using an email address.  I am not talking about the background systems.  Of course they are more robust.  The issues is that the LOTW process is inherently difficult for many as confirmed by the many many many complaints that have been registered.  Sure lots of people use it.  I do, I have no issues.  I came from an IT background.  If the ARRL wants more people to use then make it easier.

Lets stop deflecting the issue by nit picking my examples.


On 1/13/2020 4:24 PM, Ria, N2RJ wrote:

I write software at a bank as a software and systems engineering lead and you could not be more wrong. There is so much that goes on behind the scenes at a bank with regard to IT systems. But even customer facing part of it has additional checks not just for your account security but also to combat money laundering and terrorism including mandatory steps required by regulators. These steps, if not complied with can result in large fines and misconduct sanctions.  


Banks also leverage data collected by government and private agencies such as credit bureaus. In other words, so much is already done before you even walk in to a branch. 


And US banks pale in comparison to what is required in Europe. 


With LoTW the basic concepts are sound but I think that the UI could use some updates and a better workflow. We will have updates with LoTW 2.0 that should hopefully address these. Reading the committee report I am encouraged by some of the improvements that are in the pipeline. 


Logging software developers have also done their part and implemented LoTW in their software so it’s essentially seamless to upload. In log4om, which is what I use, upload to LoTW is just a few clicks. I upload regularly, after each operating session or contest weekend. Some are even doing real time uploads.  






On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 6:02 PM W0MU <w0mu@...> wrote:

My bank requires less to send real money.  We are talking about a hobby and QSLs.  Sure there is integrity of the program but at the end of the day it is an award that they are paying for themselves............


On 1/13/2020 3:56 PM, Pete K0BAK via Groups.Arrl.Org wrote:

Just want to be clear, my off-hand comment about "widely-hated LotW" in the context of my overall point about ongoing non-ARRL park and island and summit operating programs does not reflect my own view of LotW. LotW works fine for me, but I stand behind my "widely-hated" phrase, based on many online complaints from hams who've tried to use it unsuccessfully and will never be back. Didn't mean to turn this into a LotW discussion, but there should be no question that many hams are intimidated or annoyed or not good with following directions and will not use LotW. As a former application designer who applied crypto operations to build cloud-like SAAS systems long before "cloud" was a thing, I'm comfortable with and understand keys and certs and signing and CSRs etc. ... but even I think it's overkill for logging.

-- Pete K0BAK




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