New modes and RTTY DXCC


W0MU
 

I just saw post by a gentlemen in another group that said he only wants RTTY contacts for this digital award and has to make sure he doesn't pick any of the other digital confirmations from his confirmations and is still unhappy that the long standing RTTY award was modified instead of a new award being created.

Why were all the digital modes lumped in with RTTY or why was RTTY lumped in with the digital modes?

If the goal is to sell awards, and I think we have already agreed that the awards are a nice income stream to the league, why not just allow people to chase DXCC/WAS using RTTY, FT4, FT8, packtor, etc as independent stand alone awards?

The Digital award is more like the mixed award that combines CW and SSB.

Is the answer is antiquated systems?  if so, Isn't it well past time that the ARRL invest in to some current technologies to offer the Awards that the members want and not just offer awards that the antiquated systems can provide?

Is there any real desire by the board/psc/whoever to actually procure a system that can do this?  Sure there seems to be lots of talk but is there any real action?  If this is being done, when can we expect these new systems to be running?


W0MU


Gary Hinson <Gary@...>
 

There's more to this than the antiquated IT systems.

The differences between "modes" (comms protocols) vary from gross to subtle, begging questions about where and how to draw the line distinguishing them.

New or variant digital modes are being actively developed. Some are backwards compatible, some not. Some are very obscure and never get past the drawing board. Others flourish ... and evolve (e.g. 75-bit FT8 morphed into 77-bit FT8, then JS8 and FT4, and ... ?). Does it make sense to offer separate awards for any of them? If so, which ones?

It's not just about "digital". Is USB sufficiently different from LSB to justify separate awards? How about CW vs coherent CW, or CW sent with a straight key vs keyer vs bug vs computer? If you receive my hand-sent CW using a code reader, is that the same as copying me by ear? Does the former imply that my CW is of a higher quality than the latter? Should there be an award for sending "perfectly-formed well spaced CW, free of errors"? And does the CW speed matter?

Even RTTY has variants: I bet there are hams out there chasing DXCC on 75 baud RTTY. Quite a challenge! Worthy of a separate award? What about narrow-shift RTTY? Or mechanically generated and received RTTY?

Oh and let's not forget the zombie thread about what constitutes "an entity", even within the formally specified DXCC rules.

And are 'endorsements' separate from 'awards'? Is a sticker sufficient recognition for the achievement? Just how fancy should the plaque be? .... ... ... .. .

Bottom line: the criteria for awards are arbitrary.

That's not all. There are other relevant factors such as the popularity and prestige of the awards and the associated economics.

Once you sort all that lot out, developing the supporting IT systems and processes becomes simple!

73
Gary ZL2iFB

-----Original Message-----
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of W0MU
Sent: 11 March 2021 05:05
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: [ARRL-Awards] New modes and RTTY DXCC

I just saw post by a gentlemen in another group that said he only wants RTTY contacts for this digital award and has to make sure he doesn't pick any of the other digital confirmations from his confirmations and is still unhappy that the long standing RTTY award was modified instead of a new award being created.

Why were all the digital modes lumped in with RTTY or why was RTTY lumped in with the digital modes?

If the goal is to sell awards, and I think we have already agreed that the awards are a nice income stream to the league, why not just allow people to chase DXCC/WAS using RTTY, FT4, FT8, packtor, etc as independent stand alone awards?

The Digital award is more like the mixed award that combines CW and SSB.

Is the answer is antiquated systems? if so, Isn't it well past time that the ARRL invest in to some current technologies to offer the Awards that the members want and not just offer awards that the antiquated systems can provide?

Is there any real desire by the board/psc/whoever to actually procure a system that can do this? Sure there seems to be lots of talk but is there any real action? If this is being done, when can we expect these new systems to be running?


W0MU


Skip
 

or, rename the category "Digital?"

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/10/2021 10:49 AM, Gary Hinson wrote:

There's more to this than the antiquated IT systems.

The differences between "modes" (comms protocols) vary from gross to subtle, begging questions about where and how to draw the line distinguishing them.

New or variant digital modes are being actively developed.  Some are backwards compatible, some not.  Some are very obscure and never get past the drawing board.  Others flourish ... and evolve (e.g. 75-bit FT8 morphed into 77-bit FT8, then JS8 and FT4, and ... ?).  Does it make sense to offer separate awards for any of them?  If so, which ones?

It's not just about "digital".  Is USB sufficiently different from LSB to justify separate awards?  How about CW vs coherent CW, or CW sent with a straight key vs keyer vs bug vs computer?  If you receive my hand-sent CW using a code reader, is that the same as copying me by ear?  Does the former imply that my CW is of a higher quality than the latter?  Should there be an award for sending "perfectly-formed well spaced CW, free of errors"?  And does the CW speed matter?

Even RTTY has variants: I bet there are hams out there chasing DXCC on 75 baud RTTY.  Quite a challenge!  Worthy of a separate award?  What about narrow-shift RTTY?  Or mechanically generated and received RTTY?

Oh and let's not forget the zombie thread about what constitutes "an entity", even within the formally specified DXCC rules.

And are 'endorsements' separate from 'awards'?  Is a sticker sufficient recognition for the achievement?  Just how fancy should the plaque be? .... ... ... .. .

Bottom line: the criteria for awards are arbitrary.

That's not all.  There are other relevant factors such as the popularity and prestige of the awards and the associated economics.

Once you sort all that lot out, developing the supporting IT systems and processes becomes simple!

73
Gary  ZL2iFB

-----Original Message-----
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of W0MU
Sent: 11 March 2021 05:05
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: [ARRL-Awards] New modes and RTTY DXCC

I just saw post by a gentlemen in another group that said he only wants RTTY contacts for this digital award and has to make sure he doesn't pick any of the other digital confirmations from his confirmations and is still unhappy that the long standing RTTY award was modified instead of a new award being created.

Why were all the digital modes lumped in with RTTY or why was RTTY lumped in with the digital modes?

If the goal is to sell awards, and I think we have already agreed that the awards are a nice income stream to the league, why not just allow people to chase DXCC/WAS using RTTY, FT4, FT8, packtor, etc as independent stand alone awards?

The Digital award is more like the mixed award that combines CW and SSB.

Is the answer is antiquated systems?  if so, Isn't it well past time that the ARRL invest in to some current technologies to offer the Awards that the members want and not just offer awards that the antiquated systems can provide?

Is there any real desire by the board/psc/whoever to actually procure a system that can do this?  Sure there seems to be lots of talk but is there any real action?  If this is being done, when can we expect these new systems to be running?


W0MU



Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

I just saw post by a gentlemen in another group that said he only wants RTTY contacts for this digital award and has to make sure he doesn't pick any of the other digital confirmations from his confirmations and is still unhappy that the long standing RTTY award was modified instead of a new award being created.

Why were all the digital modes lumped in with RTTY or why was RTTY lumped in with the digital modes?

If the goal is to sell awards, and I think we have already agreed that the awards are a nice income stream to the league, why not just allow people to chase DXCC/WAS using RTTY, FT4, FT8, packtor, etc as independent stand alone awards?

The Digital award is more like the mixed award that combines CW and SSB.

Is the answer is antiquated systems? if so, Isn't it well past time that the ARRL invest in to some current technologies to offer the Awards that the members want and not just offer awards that the antiquated systems can provide?

Is there any real desire by the board/psc/whoever to actually procure a system that can do this? Sure there seems to be lots of talk but is there any real action? If this is being done, when can we expect these new systems to be running?

+ As I have posted here before, the current DXCC system is antiquated and fragile. In 2016, a project to outsource its replacement was initiated. In late 2017, the outsourced replacement project was deemed a failure, and the project was taken back in house. To staff it, the developers working on LoTW were re-assigned to the DXCC replacement project. To my knowledge, a replacement DXCC system has still not been deployed.

+ Several other significant ARRL software projects are similarly "stuck" somewhere between development and deployment (e.g. lifetime learning, association management).

+ Unless ARRL members put significant pressure on the Directors who represent them on the ARRL Board, the status quo will likely continue.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Skip
 

For every software development company that can deliver finished products that meet the original needs and requirements of the organization, there are multi-hundreds who can't and won't.  The old joke about the lead telling the team, "OK, you all start coding, I'll go try and find out what they want," is far more true and prevalent than the joke would imply and universally leads to failure.

We are now approaching 4 years since the "Revolt of 2017," we've been through a complete 3-year round of Board elections, two CEO's have been terminated after two and one year respectively, and ARRL doesn't look much different than it did in 2017.  "On-the Air" and associated podcasts/blogs have been initiated but appear to be accessible by members only.  Several member-contact social media groups have been established ostensibly, to facilitate communications between the Board/Staff and membership, however only one of the 15 Directors is a regular participant and one other occasionally.  Only one staff member is regularly present in these groups and it isn't the CEO.  ARRL is still massively top-heavy, the almost universal answer when members bring up issues is still, "Contact your Director."  So far, other than Cycle 25 spots appearing, as far as ARRL goes, 2021 feels an awful lot like 2017 ... only with masks.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/10/2021 7:24 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:

+ As I have posted here before, the current DXCC system is antiquated and fragile. In 2016, a project to outsource its replacement was initiated. In late 2017, the outsourced replacement project was deemed a failure, and the project was taken back in house. To staff it, the developers working on LoTW were re-assigned to the DXCC replacement project. To my knowledge, a replacement DXCC system has still not been deployed.

+ Several other significant ARRL software projects are similarly "stuck" somewhere between development and deployment (e.g. lifetime learning, association management).

+ Unless ARRL members put significant pressure on the Directors who represent them on the ARRL Board, the status quo will likely continue.

          73,

                Dave, AA6YQ 



Dave AA6YQ
 

For every software development company that can deliver finished products that meet the original needs and requirements of the organization, there are multi-hundreds who can't and won't. The old joke about the lead telling the team, "OK, you all start coding, I'll go try and find out what they want," is far more true and prevalent than the joke would imply and universally leads to failure.

+ The reality is that most users of software don't know what they want. They aren't usability experts, or trained "user experience" designers. They can provide excellent feedback on an application they're using, and tell you what functionality is missing, but most can't tell you how best to deliver that functionality in a manner that will be frictionless to use.

+ Spending years collecting requirements, designing a system responsive to those requirements, implementing that design, testing that design and the for the first time putting that system in front of users RARELY WORKS. The requirements you collected were likely incomplete and inaccurate, no matter how well you listened to users. Years after you started, your finally discover your biggest mistakes - after large investments in an architecture and an implementation of that architecture.

+ What actually works? Iterative development. You have a new user interface paradigm in mind? Spend a few months implementing a piece of it in the current LoTW, so that users can immediately put weight on it -- and provide accurate feedback as to its applicability and usability. Instead of discarding the current implementation of LoTW and working for years to pull a brand new rabbit out of the hat, improve what we have - increment by increment - with user feedback a continuous part of the development process. Sure, we need a multi-year roadmap to guide this process, but the roadmap should be updated based on user feedback and emerging organizational needs each time a new increment is made accessible to users - typically 3 or 4 times each year.

+ This not rocket science. The transition from "Waterfall" to "Iterative" software development began decades ago.

de AA6YQ


rksimpson1
 

I second what Dave, AA6YQ, said regarding software development. I learned “his method” the hard way back in the 1990s time frame when I was managing one of four departments that was doing firmware microcode for what at that time was IBM’s high end disk drive subsystems. I was one of few who build prototypes that would demo certain user interface portals and certain algorithms and processes without supporting any “real world” functionality. This was enormously helpful in bringing to light what the requirements really were. Most users didn’t even realize that old “unit record” type interfaces could much more simply be understood with a few screens with various controls.    About 80% of bugs are design bugs not software bugs. 73  Roger K5RKS  

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 6:35 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] New modes and RTTY DXCC

 

For every software development company that can deliver finished products that meet the original needs and requirements of the organization, there are multi-hundreds who can't and won't.  The old joke about the lead telling the team, "OK, you all start coding, I'll go try and find out what they want," is far more true and prevalent than the joke would imply and universally leads to failure.

 

+ The reality is that most users of software don't know what they want. They aren't usability experts, or trained "user experience" designers. They can provide excellent feedback on an application they're using, and tell you what functionality is missing, but most can't tell you how best to deliver that functionality in a manner that will be frictionless to use.

 

+ Spending years collecting requirements, designing a system responsive to those requirements, implementing that design, testing that design and the for the first time putting that system in front of users RARELY WORKS. The requirements you collected were likely incomplete and inaccurate, no matter how well you listened to users. Years after you started, your finally discover your biggest mistakes - after large investments in an architecture and an implementation of that architecture.

 

+ What actually works? Iterative development. You have a new user interface paradigm in mind? Spend a few months implementing a piece of it in the current LoTW, so that users can immediately put weight on it -- and provide accurate feedback as to its applicability and usability. Instead of discarding the current implementation of LoTW and working for years to pull a brand new rabbit out of the hat, improve what we have - increment by increment - with user feedback a continuous part of the development process. Sure, we need a multi-year roadmap to guide this process, but the roadmap should be updated based on user feedback and emerging organizational needs each time a new increment is made accessible to users - typically 3 or 4 times each year.

 

+ This not rocket science. The transition from "Waterfall" to "Iterative" software development began decades ago.

 

       de AA6YQ

 

 

 

 

 

 


Dave AA6YQ
 

* More AA6YQ comments below

I second what Dave, AA6YQ, said regarding software development. I learned “his method” the hard way back in the 1990s time frame when I was managing one of four departments that was doing firmware microcode for what at that time was IBM’s high end disk drive subsystems.

+ Most people credit Dr. Barry Boehm's 1986 paper "A Spiral Model of Software Development and Enhancement" as the first clear articulation of iterative development. There have been many improvements and refinements since then.

+ At Rational Software, we began working on our development environment for the Ada programming language in 1982. This was the first commercial development environment to support iterative development with a strongly-typed language. The Rational Environment was built in Ada using iterative development, and first delivered in 1985 - hosted on a custom CPU we designed specifically to provide the necessary interactive performance. Our initial customers were as interested learning how we developed it as they were in the functionality it offered - which led us to expand our offering from "tools for modern software engineering" to "tools and training for modern software engineering". We helped many companies make the transition from ad hoc programming to modern software engineering.

de AA6YQ