How long does it take to verify QSL Application
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How long does it take to verify a QSL Application? i sent in an application For VUCC in early August and have not heard or seen anything. Jerry - N5EKO |
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Just saw that the check cleared in early September. Jerry - N5EKO
On Friday, October 7, 2022 at 10:50:29 PM CDT, Jerry N5EKO via groups.arrl.org <kb5eko1=yahoo.com@...> wrote:
How long does it take to verify a QSL Application? i sent in an application For VUCC in early August and have not heard or seen anything. Jerry - N5EKO |
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So the answer, Jerry, is that QSL checks by HQ take about a month - at the moment. Doubtless it varies across the year (e.g. busier at new year), with extraordinary events (such as Covid) and with postal delays (a fact of life for those of us who choose to live in Back of Beyond).
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While QSL checks at ARRL HQ take about a month, how long does it take if everything is in LoTW?
For field checking at sanctioned events, does the QSL process speed up and are there any limitations to the use of field checking for VUCC, DXCC, WAS or WAC?
73,
J. Gordon "Gordie" Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
201.314.6964
W2TTT@...
Gordon.BeattieJr@...
Get On The Air!
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Gary Hinson <zl2ifb@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 8, 2022 1:53:26 AM To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How long does it take to verify QSL Application So the answer, Jerry, is that QSL checks by HQ take about a month - at the moment.
Doubtless it varies across the year (e.g. busier at new year), with extraordinary events (such as Covid) and with postal delays (a fact of life for those of us who choose to live in Back of Beyond).
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LoTW applications are usually done in a few days. Paper cards for DXCC have been taking two to three weeks. VUCC has been taking two months lately because of all the submissions from the summer E skip season.
Some guys might impose limits on card checking at events, but I did a pile of about 350 cards as Dayton last spring. I don’t think applications submitted at these events get preferential treatment, but someone at HQ would have to confirm that.
---- 73, Mike Cizek W0VTT
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
Sent: Saturday, 8 October, 2022 02:47 To: ARRL-Awards@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How long does it take to verify QSL Application
While QSL checks at ARRL HQ take about a month, how long does it take if everything is in LoTW?
For field checking at sanctioned events, does the QSL process speed up and are there any limitations to the use of field checking for VUCC, DXCC, WAS or WAC?
Get On The Air!
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Gary Hinson <zl2ifb@...>
So the answer, Jerry, is that QSL checks by HQ take about a month - at the moment.
Doubtless it varies across the year (e.g. busier at new year), with extraordinary events (such as Covid) and with postal delays (a fact of life for those of us who choose to live in Back of Beyond).
On Sat, 8 Oct 2022 at 16:54, Jerry N5EKO via groups.arrl.org <kb5eko1=yahoo.com@...> wrote:
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Gordie; One of the most opportune times that I have found to submit is about one month before Dayton (“Z”). At that time many are holding their cards to have them checked at Hamvention, and the workload is a little lighter at HQ to check, and the paperwork can be heavy once they get back to HQ. September used to be a bad month as everyone was making last minute submissions for the yearly DXCC listing, but now that it is online, that “wave” has probably subsided a little. I believe Mikes timeline is close to real life today. LoTW does cut down the submission time greatly and the attention by the Awards department is getting real good thanks to Sharron. Occasionally I check with my card checker, and send directly to him as he is very close and the chance of something getting lost is less. I once submitted Triple Play 100% via LoTW and it was approved the same day! It took time to get the certificate though. Things are much better than they used to be when a DXCC could take longer than a month to process. However, the anticipation time is still high. Congratulations on your achievement! Dale K8TS
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Mike Cizek W0VTT
Sent: Saturday, October 8, 2022 7:35 AM To: ARRL-Awards@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How long does it take to verify QSL Application
LoTW applications are usually done in a few days. Paper cards for DXCC have been taking two to three weeks. VUCC has been taking two months lately because of all the submissions from the summer E skip season.
Some guys might impose limits on card checking at events, but I did a pile of about 350 cards as Dayton last spring. I don’t think applications submitted at these events get preferential treatment, but someone at HQ would have to confirm that.
---- 73, Mike Cizek W0VTT
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
While QSL checks at ARRL HQ take about a month, how long does it take if everything is in LoTW?
For field checking at sanctioned events, does the QSL process speed up and are there any limitations to the use of field checking for VUCC, DXCC, WAS or WAC?
Get On The Air!
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Gary Hinson <zl2ifb@...>
So the answer, Jerry, is that QSL checks by HQ take about a month - at the moment.
Doubtless it varies across the year (e.g. busier at new year), with extraordinary events (such as Covid) and with postal delays (a fact of life for those of us who choose to live in Back of Beyond).
On Sat, 8 Oct 2022 at 16:54, Jerry N5EKO via groups.arrl.org <kb5eko1=yahoo.com@...> wrote:
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Gordon,
Good to see you in here asking some thoughtful questions! Regarding the impact of Field Checking of QSL cards; Yes, the process at HQ is streamlined a bit, but it only removes the task of verifying that the information on the application form matches the submitted QSL card data. Every QSO is still evaluated on its own for viability and accuracy. All of this work is a predominantly manual process. And, as such, it takes a finite amount of time. For VUCC, each QSO is evaluated and the grid squares are verified for both ends of the QSO. We currently have one person handling VUCC and if he's on vacation, things do pile up a bit. That, on top of the increased number of submissions due to not only favorable conditions, but the endless growth of FT8 activity on the Magic Band, as just one example. Everyone here is continually busy, and we do not have excess staff to add to the mix when the workload increases. Due to Covid, we don't have as many volunteers at HQ now. We did host a special open house for our Connecticut neighbors on October 29, and thankfully we got fantastically warm and sunny fall weather for the nearly 200 that showed up. Part of the purpose was to solicit for new volunteers for positions such as these we're discussing. We'll see how that works out as we hear from people who picked up both the job postings and volunteer opportunities brochures that we handed out that day. If you know somebody in the Hartford CT area that you think might want to help out on a part time basis, please have them reach out to us here at HQ@.... VY 73! -Bob W5OV Robert E. Naumann W5OV Director of Operations
1(860) 594-0234 |
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Bob,
Well, I try hard not to be a "bomb thrower". While I'm more "pushy" than most, it's important to be thoughtful and respectful. Sometimes my tireless inquisitiveness can be misinterpreted as being pushy, but rarely is that my intent. I think
a lot of us inadvertently tortured our parents, teachers, siblings, spouses and friends with the overuse of the question. "Why?". I can tell you that it got my desk placed in a school hallway at Bradford School in Upper Montclair, NJ for two years back
in 1966-1968! :-) Our adult sons aren't all that thrilled with it either, so I try to tone it down. :-)
Good idea to try to get locals to volunteer at HQ, and I will keep an eye out for possible volunteers.
Thank you for the explanation of the proce involved in getting awards. Delays or not, there are limits to the amount of labor one can afford to expend on such things. Optimizations of the process are always welcome, but with appropriate safeguards.
Could there be a user-driven tool/portal where the applicant user submits the QSO callsigns and endorsement parameters for an award and then run that through LoTW to produce a "go/no go report" with an exception list? Then if there sre no exceptions, then
smply ask if the user wants to request the award. The rest would be an administrative process to collect money, name on certificate, etc. Mind you, I've only applied for a few awards about a year ago and only with the wonderful help of the staff, so this
may already be in place.
Thanks again! Keep up the good work!
73,
J. Gordon "Gordie" Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
201.314.6964
W2TTT@...
Gordon.BeattieJr@...
Get On The Air!
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Naumann, Robert, W5OV <rnaumann@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2022 1:10:07 PM To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How long does it take to verify QSL Application Gordon,
Good to see you in here asking some thoughtful questions! Regarding the impact of Field Checking of QSL cards; Yes, the process at HQ is streamlined a bit, but it only removes the task of verifying that the information on the application form matches the submitted QSL card data. Every QSO is still evaluated on its own for viability and accuracy. All of this work is a predominantly manual process. And, as such, it takes a finite amount of time. For VUCC, each QSO is evaluated and the grid squares are verified for both ends of the QSO. We currently have one person handling VUCC and if he's on vacation, things do pile up a bit. That, on top of the increased number of submissions due to not only favorable conditions, but the endless growth of FT8 activity on the Magic Band, as just one example. Everyone here is continually busy, and we do not have excess staff to add to the mix when the workload increases. Due to Covid, we don't have as many volunteers at HQ now. We did host a special open house for our Connecticut neighbors on October 29, and thankfully we got fantastically warm and sunny fall weather for the nearly 200 that showed up. Part of the purpose was to solicit for new volunteers for positions such as these we're discussing. We'll see how that works out as we hear from people who picked up both the job postings and volunteer opportunities brochures that we handed out that day. If you know somebody in the Hartford CT area that you think might want to help out on a part time basis, please have them reach out to us here at HQ@.... VY 73! -Bob W5OV Robert E. Naumann W5OV Director of Operations
1(860) 594-0234 |
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Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
OMG! The last reasonable person is on this mail list!
toggle quoted message
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Good on you for being a decent person sir!! Your type is rare of late!! 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 11/9/22 11:12, Gordon Beattie, W2TTT wrote:
Well, I try hard not to be a "bomb thrower". While I'm more "pushy" than most, it's important to be thoughtful and respectful. |
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Gordon,
You've been a staunch supporter, and definitely not a bomb or "rock" thrower! I hope my appreciative comment wasn't thought to be negative in any way - it wasn't. Plus, you do ask great questions! Pushy? Nah! :-) Regarding system changes and doing things as you suggest, there is a much maligned activity called "Project X" that is in its early stages right now that will enable all sorts of new capabilities and support all types of new activities. The future is bright! Right now, we're running along remarkably well on the old LoTW and DXCC award processing systems that should have been replaced / updated 10 or more years ago. We're going to make significant changes, when the time is right, and it will be done correctly. On a completely different subject: I neglected to mention earlier that I had lunch with K1EP on Monday who was on his way back home from working at the NYC Marathon. We reminisced a bit about the old days and I recalled going to the diner on Rt 4 at like 3:30 AM Sunday morning, etc. before heading into Central Park. I did enjoy all of that stuff back then. I don't think I could do it now. There were a lot of people involved in that who were really terrific, and sadly I don't remember all their names and even more sad, I'm sure some of them are silent keys now. This is becoming the saddest part of ham radio for me, that many of my heroes from my younger days are passing and it's happening more and more often. Ellen White W1YL just passed on Sunday and of course, her husband and her son Jim K1ZX/K4OJ (who I was close with for many years) have both been gone almost 20 years. 73 my old friend! I've known you since you were WB2CAM from 1976? 77? Bob W5OV |
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Bob and Dave,
I just don't see the value of beating up on people who are working hard to improve things that they inherited in a less than optimal state while demanding instant gratification. Sure things could be better, but constructive dialogue requires
civil discourse. Anyone who monitors this or other groups can readily folks working toward a better situation.
Project X is one set of improvements that has many complex components, limited resources and lots of paths toward realization - and each has its vocal proponents and detractors who are unbridled in their messaging. In the meantime, the existing
platform needs to run and requires time and resources. Folks need to be realistic and patient. No one who is involved likes or prefers this situation, so either offer to help or be patient.
As for the New York City Marathon, Nancy N2FWI and I came up from Florida last weekend to help out. It's what we do. It was great to see Ed K1EP and the rest of the gang. Many of the oldtimers are still there, many new people have jumped right in and
sadly, we are missing many who have passed on. The memory of Steve Mendelsohn, Fred Lebow, Alan Steinfeld and Jim Jackson only start a long list of great memories. The people are why we get and remain involved. Afterwards,
we met our youngest son Jeremy KC2VBS at the Tick-Tock Diner on Rt. 3 after leaving Central Park at 7 pm. Later in the evening we went to Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Lab for a 5G Workshop for First Responders
and Emergency Networks. On Tuesday afternoon we headed to a friend's home in North Carolina for the night and next day. Now there is a hurricane heading toward the Big Bend of Florida, so in a few hours, we'll head home early.
Finally, I only pray for a few things for myself, the rest goes out to benefit others.
1. To be patient
2. To see the Face of God through His Children
3. To be healthy enough to do as He would expect.
In summary, "this Great Commandment thing" is somewhat non-negotiable for me as the Jesuits forned us to be "Men for Others".
Keep doing good things Bob and thank you and your colleagues!
73,
J. Gordon "Gordie" Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
201.314.6964
W2TTT@...
Gordon.BeattieJr@...
Get On The Air!
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Naumann, Robert, W5OV <rnaumann@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2022, 5:20 PM To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How long does it take to verify QSL Application Gordon, You've been a staunch supporter, and definitely not a bomb or "rock" thrower! I hope my appreciative comment wasn't thought to be negative in any way - it wasn't. Plus, you do ask great questions! Pushy? Nah! :-) Regarding system changes and doing things as you suggest, there is a much maligned activity called "Project X" that is in its early stages right now that will enable all sorts of new capabilities and support all types of new activities. The future is bright! Right now, we're running along remarkably well on the old LoTW and DXCC award processing systems that should have been replaced / updated 10 or more years ago. We're going to make significant changes, when the time is right, and it will be done correctly. On a completely different subject: I neglected to mention earlier that I had lunch with K1EP on Monday who was on his way back home from working at the NYC Marathon. We reminisced a bit about the old days and I recalled going to the diner on Rt 4 at like 3:30 AM Sunday morning, etc. before heading into Central Park. I did enjoy all of that stuff back then. I don't think I could do it now. There were a lot of people involved in that who were really terrific, and sadly I don't remember all their names and even more sad, I'm sure some of them are silent keys now. This is becoming the saddest part of ham radio for me, that many of my heroes from my younger days are passing and it's happening more and more often. Ellen White W1YL just passed on Sunday and of course, her husband and her son Jim K1ZX/K4OJ (who I was close with for many years) have both been gone almost 20 years. 73 my old friend! I've known you since you were WB2CAM from 1976? 77? Bob W5OV |
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QSL cards are costly to print, complete, transport, sort/redistribute and check/verify. They are environmentally unfriendly and liable to fakery and manipulation, as well as various kinds of physical trauma and theft. At some future point in the next few years (maybe a decade or so?), the disadvantages of QSL cards relative to digital confirmations will - I'm sure - become overwhelming so they will either fade away naturally or be actively phased out. On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 at 13:14, Gordon Beattie, W2TTT <w2ttt@...> wrote:
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(Disclaimer: I have a collection of several thousand paper QSL’s, and I am a daily participant in LoTW where I have over 70,000 confirmations.)
Gary, with all due respect, your jeremiad against paper QSL’s is troubling, and remarkably puzzling.
Paper vs LoTW is not an “either/or” proposition. If you don’t wish to participate in exchanging paper cards, then just don’t participate! Simple! You will never again need to contend with the evils and inconveniences detailed in your first paragraph below. Every DXpedition that I’ve known about in the last decade provides procedures to confirm your contacts via LoTW. I’d expect that this trend will continue, and no serious DXer will NEED another paper QSL.
But to deliberately lobby for the end of paper QSL’s, as you have done in your message attached, is mean spirited.
Some hams, probably mostly old geezers like me, have a sentimental attachment to paper QSLs and continue to pursue this “hobby within a hobby”. One of my other hobbies is photographic artistry which I use on my paper QSL designs. I receive numerous compliments, and confess some pride in the cards that I send out (on my dime, not yours).
Maybe they will be “naturally phased out” as the aficionados of this tradition assume room temperature, but I heartily object to your call to “actively phase them out”. To reiterate, if you don’t like them, don’t use them.
73, de Hans, K0HB
From: Gary Hinson
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2022 04:25 To: ARRL-Awards@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How long does it take to verify QSL Application
QSL cards are costly to print, complete, transport, sort/redistribute and check/verify. They are environmentally unfriendly and liable to fakery and manipulation, as well as various kinds of physical trauma and theft.
At some future point in the next few years (maybe a decade or so?), the disadvantages of QSL cards relative to digital confirmations will - I'm sure - become overwhelming so they will either fade away naturally or be actively phased out.
So, given numerous advantages of secure digital confirmations over QSL cards, what else might be done to move things in that direction? How can we help?
-- 73, de Hans, K0HB "Just a Boy and His Radio"™ |
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I heartly agree with Hans. I’m an old fuddy duddy who gets immense pleasure posting new cards on the wall and also in albums on the coffee table. So many of them have histiorial note to them and meaning way beyond ham radio. Non-amateurs often comment on them, something that would not happen from an electronic database.
Our local county fair invites us and gives us free booth space, and last year put our demonstrations in the fair program. Besides having 3 HF and one VHF operating positions we always put up a large map of the world surrounded with QSL cards from local hams. (usually about 40 or so) and use strings to pin point where they come from. This is a big eye catcher and draws a lot of attention. Easy to recruit new hams. (and yes we do work a substantial amount of dx from the 4-H barn).
Please don’t let this aspect of the hobby die! To avoid the consternation, and dreaded fear of destruction, the local card checker (I realize there are limited numbers of them overseas) is your best friend. The amazing artwork is in itself worth it. Other people, other countries, other customs…..all an insight to the world.
And yes, I too use LoTW……but prefer the cards. If you need one of mine, drop one in the mail, sase and $ not required. Dale K8TS (Ex-K9TTT, a call that has been re-issued)
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Hans Brakob
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2022 12:44 AM To: ARRL-Awards@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How long does it take to verify QSL Application
(Disclaimer: I have a collection of several thousand paper QSL’s, and I am a daily participant in LoTW where I have over 70,000 confirmations.)
Gary, with all due respect, your jeremiad against paper QSL’s is troubling, and remarkably puzzling.
Paper vs LoTW is not an “either/or” proposition. If you don’t wish to participate in exchanging paper cards, then just don’t participate! Simple! You will never again need to contend with the evils and inconveniences detailed in your first paragraph below. Every DXpedition that I’ve known about in the last decade provides procedures to confirm your contacts via LoTW. I’d expect that this trend will continue, and no serious DXer will NEED another paper QSL.
But to deliberately lobby for the end of paper QSL’s, as you have done in your message attached, is mean spirited.
Some hams, probably mostly old geezers like me, have a sentimental attachment to paper QSLs and continue to pursue this “hobby within a hobby”. One of my other hobbies is photographic artistry which I use on my paper QSL designs. I receive numerous compliments, and confess some pride in the cards that I send out (on my dime, not yours).
Maybe they will be “naturally phased out” as the aficionados of this tradition assume room temperature, but I heartily object to your call to “actively phase them out”. To reiterate, if you don’t like them, don’t use them.
73, de Hans, K0HB
From: Gary Hinson
QSL cards are costly to print, complete, transport, sort/redistribute and check/verify. They are environmentally unfriendly and liable to fakery and manipulation, as well as various kinds of physical trauma and theft.
At some future point in the next few years (maybe a decade or so?), the disadvantages of QSL cards relative to digital confirmations will - I'm sure - become overwhelming so they will either fade away naturally or be actively phased out.
So, given numerous advantages of secure digital confirmations over QSL cards, what else might be done to move things in that direction? How can we help?
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OK Folks,
We may need a new 12 Step program for recovering non-QSLers and I may need to be its "Bill".
Well, I love QSL cards and SADLY I AM THE WORST about sending QSL cards. I am ashamed!
Besides the inexcusable rudeness of this situation, the frustration inflicted on the gracious and hopeful QSLers who have sent me QSLs, I never applied for any award because I felt it unfair and wrong to benefit from the kindness of others without reciprocating.
The underlying issue was that I never had cards made. Once or twice I sent handmade cards, and another time I provided a QSL certificate/letter. These did not go over well!
Now that we've moved to Florida, I started using LoTW as a way to document how propagation works in northern Florida on 40m and 6m. Everyone should figure out how to automate their LoTW, Clublog, QRZ, etc. uploads. No excuses except for a lack of Internet
connectivity. Get and give help to others in implementing these capabilities so that no one waits for more than a few hours to confirm a QSO.
As for QSL cards, do what makes sense for your situation. If cost is an issue, then simply ask for an SASE on your QRZ page. There's no shame in that. Folks who QSL me, need not send an SASE, but I'll QSL you back shortly as I am in active QSL Recovery.
The land here is beautiful, and antennas and towers are sprouting, which makes for lovely photos for QSL cards. I'm getting them done. If I owe you a card from here in Florida or from New Jersey, just email me at W2TTT@..., so that you get a card even
if I have misplaced yours through the years.
In the meantime, I'll take suggestions on QSL card printers, and humbly ask that those afflicted by QSL and LoTW non-participation "seek bottom" and become a "Friend of Gordon" by following these 12 Steps:
1. Recognize that you have a QSL problem.
2. Recognize that you are the QSL problem.
3. Get on LoTW
4. Automate the timely use of LoTW via a logging program or spreadsheet
5. Assist others in getting on LoTW
6. Get on Clublog, QRZ, etc.
7. Support these programes with $.
8. Join the ARRL as membership is an essential part of one's recovery.
9. Get a QSL card and envelopes
10. Update your QRZ page with some fun and interesting stuff along with your QSL practices and preferences.
11. Update your ARRL member profile and put some interesting material there as well.
12. Share the joy and wisdom of using LoTW, other platforms and in exchanging QSL CARDS!
These 12 Steps will enrich your life and the lives of others in the Amateur Radio community.
73,
J. Gordon "Gordie" Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
201.314.6964
W2TTT@...
Gordon.BeattieJr@...
Get On The Air!
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of K8TS <dalecole3502@...>
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2022, 10:08 AM To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How long does it take to verify QSL Application I heartly agree with Hans. I’m an old fuddy duddy who gets immense pleasure posting new cards on the wall and also in albums on the coffee table. So many of them have histiorial note to them and meaning way beyond ham radio. Non-amateurs often comment on them, something that would not happen from an electronic database.
Our local county fair invites us and gives us free booth space, and last year put our demonstrations in the fair program. Besides having 3 HF and one VHF operating positions we always put up a large map of the world surrounded with QSL cards from local hams. (usually about 40 or so) and use strings to pin point where they come from. This is a big eye catcher and draws a lot of attention. Easy to recruit new hams. (and yes we do work a substantial amount of dx from the 4-H barn).
Please don’t let this aspect of the hobby die! To avoid the consternation, and dreaded fear of destruction, the local card checker (I realize there are limited numbers of them overseas) is your best friend. The amazing artwork is in itself worth it. Other people, other countries, other customs…..all an insight to the world.
And yes, I too use LoTW……but prefer the cards. If you need one of mine, drop one in the mail, sase and $ not required. Dale K8TS (Ex-K9TTT, a call that has been re-issued)
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of
Hans Brakob
(Disclaimer: I have a collection of several thousand paper QSL’s, and I am a daily participant in LoTW where I have over 70,000 confirmations.)
Gary, with all due respect, your jeremiad against paper QSL’s is troubling, and remarkably puzzling.
Paper vs LoTW is not an “either/or” proposition. If you don’t wish to participate in exchanging paper cards, then just don’t participate! Simple! You will never again need to contend with the evils and inconveniences detailed in your first paragraph below. Every DXpedition that I’ve known about in the last decade provides procedures to confirm your contacts via LoTW. I’d expect that this trend will continue, and no serious DXer will NEED another paper QSL.
But to deliberately lobby for the end of paper QSL’s, as you have done in your message attached, is mean spirited.
Some hams, probably mostly old geezers like me, have a sentimental attachment to paper QSLs and continue to pursue this “hobby within a hobby”. One of my other hobbies is photographic artistry which I use on my paper QSL designs. I receive numerous compliments, and confess some pride in the cards that I send out (on my dime, not yours).
Maybe they will be “naturally phased out” as the aficionados of this tradition assume room temperature, but I heartily object to your call to “actively phase them out”. To reiterate, if you don’t like them, don’t use them.
73, de Hans, K0HB
From: Gary Hinson
QSL cards are costly to print, complete, transport, sort/redistribute and check/verify. They are environmentally unfriendly and liable to fakery and manipulation, as well as various kinds of physical trauma and theft.
At some future point in the next few years (maybe a decade or so?), the disadvantages of QSL cards relative to digital confirmations will - I'm sure - become overwhelming so they will either fade away naturally or be actively phased out.
So, given numerous advantages of secure digital confirmations over QSL cards, what else might be done to move things in that direction? How can we help?
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Steve,
Thanks for your support.
Remember it's "One QSO and one QSL at a time".
:-)
73,
J. Gordon "Gordie" Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
201.314.6964
W2TTT@...
Gordon.BeattieJr@...
Get On The Air!
From: Steve Rosman <stvrosman@...>
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2022 1:26:14 PM To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> Cc: James Gordon Beattie Jr <w2ttt@...> Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How long does it take to verify QSL Application My name is Steve and I have a QSL sending problem.
Well said Gordon.
Thanks and 73.
:Steve KA2YRA
On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 1:18 PM Gordon Beattie, W2TTT <w2ttt@...> wrote:
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There are other ways to satisfy the apparent desire for postcard confirmations - for example, sending card images that recipients can print out themselves if they feel the need. As I write this, I'm looking at 3 well-stuffed envelopes received recently from the ZL2 bureau - something like 500 cards I guess on my desk waiting for me to check, of which maybe a couple of dozen will be of any real interest to me. If they had been electronic images, I could have 'processed' the bulk of them on the screen (perhaps automatically checking the QSO details against my log, skipping all those I have already responded to and flagging the remainder for replies) and perhaps printed out just the few of interest, dramatically reducing the costs and wastage. Even without a suitable colour printer to hand, there are plenty of commercial outlets in town willing to print them out on decent stock for $not-a-lot. Alternatively, I might have loaded them into a digital photo-frame somewhere in the house, circling through the images, reminding me of the QSOs and perhaps catching the attention of curious visitors. Hans & Dale: sorry if I touched a raw nerve. I meant no harm, and I certainly don't mean to diminish anyone else's enjoyment of the hobby or restrict what you and others do. I'm aware that some hams dislike digital confirmations for various reasons, and clearly some enjoy QSL cards.
Maybe QSL cards are so ingrained and so treasured that they will continue indefinitely. Personally I doubt it, so I'm interested to discuss how we think things might turn out, and what if anything we can do to help move the hobby along - whether that means working hard to retain QSL cards and the bureau system etc. or building something better to replace it. On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 at 08:16, Gordon Beattie, W2TTT <w2ttt@...> wrote:
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Gary; No problem, no worries from here. The world is changing, and I am one of the stranglers. Currently I am fighting with my cell phone. I need to download drivers on a new radio. Both issues I am losing on. What you are suggesting is probably in the near future. I used to upload all my logs to the electronic card site (I will not mention names) for those that use that service and their awards. I quit because of two reasons; Too many bogus “matches” wanting confirmation, and when I did see one that I needed for an ARRL award I could never get a LoTW confirmation from them. I looked one time and had hundreds of outstanding “matches”. But I found that ones I needed or wanted could not even take the couple minutes to upload a confirmation to LoTW which costs them nothing. Some comments even included “please upload LoTW”. Well if it is not on LoTW, I did not work you.
No nerves harmed on this end. I am just “old school” Hi Hi 73, Dale K8TS
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Gary Hinson
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2022 6:37 PM To: ARRL-Awards@... Cc: Steve Rosman <stvrosman@...> Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How long does it take to verify QSL Application
There are other ways to satisfy the apparent desire for postcard confirmations - for example, sending card images that recipients can print out themselves if they feel the need. As I write this, I'm looking at 3 well-stuffed envelopes received recently from the ZL2 bureau - something like 500 cards I guess on my desk waiting for me to check, of which maybe a couple of dozen will be of any real interest to me. If they had been electronic images, I could have 'processed' the bulk of them on the screen (perhaps automatically checking the QSO details against my log, skipping all those I have already responded to and flagging the remainder for replies) and perhaps printed out just the few of interest, dramatically reducing the costs and wastage. Even without a suitable colour printer to hand, there are plenty of commercial outlets in town willing to print them out on decent stock for $not-a-lot. Alternatively, I might have loaded them into a digital photo-frame somewhere in the house, circling through the images, reminding me of the QSOs and perhaps catching the attention of curious visitors.
Hans & Dale: sorry if I touched a raw nerve. I meant no harm, and I certainly don't mean to diminish anyone else's enjoyment of the hobby or restrict what you and others do. I'm aware that some hams dislike digital confirmations for various reasons, and clearly some enjoy QSL cards. Maybe QSL cards are so ingrained and so treasured that they will continue indefinitely. Personally I doubt it, so I'm interested to discuss how we think things might turn out, and what if anything we can do to help move the hobby along - whether that means working hard to retain QSL cards and the bureau system etc. or building something better to replace it.
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 at 08:16, Gordon Beattie, W2TTT <w2ttt@...> wrote:
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Agreed, If I logged you (Why bother with Nets UNOLESS ASKED BY SOMEONE THAT NEEDS YOU . I go to log local nets unless the rare time that someone asks that they need my state or grid or such. I am then happy to log it and send it to LoTW. My logger DXLABS, automatically sends anything I log to LotW and eqsl authenticity guaranteed but I do not try for any awards on eqsl because it is not secure and there is a lot of invalid things there.
Outlook LT Gil W0MN Hierro Candente Batir de Repente 44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of K8TS
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2022 9:59 PM To: ARRL-Awards@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How long does it take to verify QSL Application
Gary; No problem, no worries from here. The world is changing, and I am one of the stranglers. Currently I am fighting with my cell phone. I need to download drivers on a new radio. Both issues I am losing on. What you are suggesting is probably in the near future. I used to upload all my logs to the electronic card site (I will not mention names) for those that use that service and their awards. I quit because of two reasons; Too many bogus “matches” wanting confirmation, and when I did see one that I needed for an ARRL award I could never get a LoTW confirmation from them. I looked one time and had hundreds of outstanding “matches”. But I found that ones I needed or wanted could not even take the couple minutes to upload a confirmation to LoTW which costs them nothing. Some comments even included “please upload LoTW”. Well if it is not on LoTW, I did not work you.
No nerves harmed on this end. I am just “old school” Hi Hi 73, Dale K8TS
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Gary Hinson
There are other ways to satisfy the apparent desire for postcard confirmations - for example, sending card images that recipients can print out themselves if they feel the need. As I write this, I'm looking at 3 well-stuffed envelopes received recently from the ZL2 bureau - something like 500 cards I guess on my desk waiting for me to check, of which maybe a couple of dozen will be of any real interest to me. If they had been electronic images, I could have 'processed' the bulk of them on the screen (perhaps automatically checking the QSO details against my log, skipping all those I have already responded to and flagging the remainder for replies) and perhaps printed out just the few of interest, dramatically reducing the costs and wastage. Even without a suitable colour printer to hand, there are plenty of commercial outlets in town willing to print them out on decent stock for $not-a-lot. Alternatively, I might have loaded them into a digital photo-frame somewhere in the house, circling through the images, reminding me of the QSOs and perhaps catching the attention of curious visitors.
Hans & Dale: sorry if I touched a raw nerve. I meant no harm, and I certainly don't mean to diminish anyone else's enjoyment of the hobby or restrict what you and others do. I'm aware that some hams dislike digital confirmations for various reasons, and clearly some enjoy QSL cards. Maybe QSL cards are so ingrained and so treasured that they will continue indefinitely. Personally I doubt it, so I'm interested to discuss how we think things might turn out, and what if anything we can do to help move the hobby along - whether that means working hard to retain QSL cards and the bureau system etc. or building something better to replace it.
On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 at 08:16, Gordon Beattie, W2TTT <w2ttt@...> wrote:
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Steve Rosman
My name is Steve and I have a QSL sending problem. Well said Gordon. Thanks and 73. :Steve KA2YRA On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 1:18 PM Gordon Beattie, W2TTT <w2ttt@...> wrote:
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