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I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again. I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau. Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card? The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? Pete Chamalian, W1RM W1RM@...
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Hi Pete,
I just got one emailed. It originated by a service in Europe. It was from a U S ham for a 2015 qso. The photo was the same as his card on EQSL. I'm going to ignore it.
73
Bob
I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again. I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau. Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card? The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? Pete Chamalian, W1RM W1RM@...
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I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and
sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL?
+ Emailed QSL's are not valid for ARRL awards. They may be valuable to you as wallpaper.
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?
+ It would not count for any ARRL-sponsored award.
If not, then why?
+ Because the rules for each ARRL-sponsored award explicitly state so.
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that's on a card?
+ Yes: it would be trivial to forge a QSL card that you print. It's more difficult to undetectably alter a printed and signed QSL
card that you've received from your QSO partner, and ARRL staff are quite good at detecting such alterations.
73,
Dave, AA6YQ
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Ria, N2RJ
There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail.
This way it becomes a regular QSL card…
Otherwise no go.
73 Ria N2RJ
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM < w1rm@...> wrote: I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again. I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau. Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card? The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? Pete Chamalian, W1RM W1RM@...
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Hi, At this time the only possible value for an emailed QSL is the good feeling it gives you and the sender... No value for awards. 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.netARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
On 1/16/22 14:09, Pete W1RM wrote: I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
Pete Chamalian, W1RM
W1RM@...
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HH Brakob
Every QSL, regardless of how I receive it, is valid and valuable to me.
A radio club based in Connecticut may or may not accept it for one or more of their club awards, but that doesn’t make it “invalid”. It is still a good QSL.
73, de Hans, KØHB
“Just a Boy and his Radio”™
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 7:08:03 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
Hi,
At this time the only possible value for an emailed QSL is the good
feeling it gives you and the sender... No value for awards.
73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
On 1/16/22 14:09, Pete W1RM wrote:
> I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
>
> I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The
> sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via
> the bureau.
>
> Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and
> submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a
> difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
>
> The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to
> confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
>
> Pete Chamalian, W1RM
>
> W1RM@...
>
>
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Hans, I think you quoted the wrong post, I did not say they were "invalid", I said the value was to the holder, and sender... You quoted "invalid", and I did not use the word "invalid", so I am assuming you were responding to some other post, not mine. 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.netARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
On 1/16/22 18:39, HH Brakob wrote: Every QSL, regardless of how I receive it, is valid and valuable to me.
A radio club based in Connecticut may or may not accept it for one or more of their club awards, but that doesn’t make it “invalid”. It is still a good QSL.
73, de Hans, KØHB
“Just a Boy and his Radio”™
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, January 16, 2022 7:08:03 PM
*To:* ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
*Subject:* Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
Hi,
At this time the only possible value for an emailed QSL is the good
feeling it gives you and the sender... No value for awards.
73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
On 1/16/22 14:09, Pete W1RM wrote:
I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
Pete Chamalian, W1RM
W1RM@...
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HH Brakob
Mia culpa, Dave.
My point is that every QSL is valid to those who participated in the contact. ARRL has no say in that matter, except in the case that you might wish to apply for one of their awards.
The fun is in the contact, not in the paperwork.
73, de Hans, KØHB
“Just a Boy and his Radio”™
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 9:06:43 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
Hans,
I think you quoted the wrong post, I did not say they were "invalid", I
said the value was to the holder, and sender...
You quoted "invalid", and I did not use the word "invalid", so I am
assuming you were responding to some other post, not mine.
73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
On 1/16/22 18:39, HH Brakob wrote:
> Every QSL, regardless of how I receive it, is valid and valuable to me.
>
> A radio club based in Connecticut may or may not accept it for one or
> more of their club awards, but that doesn’t make it “invalid”. It is
> still a good QSL.
>
> 73, de Hans, KØHB
> “Just a Boy and his Radio”™
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on
> behalf of Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 16, 2022 7:08:03 PM
> *To:* ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
> *Subject:* Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
> Hi,
>
> At this time the only possible value for an emailed QSL is the good
> feeling it gives you and the sender... No value for awards.
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net < https://www.nk7z.net>
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 1/16/22 14:09, Pete W1RM wrote:
>> I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
>>
>> I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The
>> sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via
>> the bureau.
>>
>> Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and
>> submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a
>> difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
>>
>> The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to
>> confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
>>
>> Pete Chamalian, W1RM
>>
>> W1RM@...
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
Ria,
Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?
I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope. Are they not valid?
If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card?
73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964
W2TTT@...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:57:52 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail.
This way it becomes a regular QSL card…
Otherwise no go.
73
Ria
N2RJ
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM < w1rm@...> wrote:
I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
Pete Chamalian, W1RM
W1RM@...
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Steven Rutledge <steven.t.rutledge@...>
Come on Gordon........
Steve, N4JQQ
On 1/16/2022 10:05 PM, w2ttt wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Ria,
Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?
I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope. Are they not
valid?
If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are
they substantively different than an emailed card?
73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964
There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL
awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it
and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail.
This way it becomes a regular QSL card…
Otherwise no go.
73
Ria
N2RJ
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at
5:10 PM Pete W1RM < w1rm@...>
wrote:
I may have posed this question
before, but I’ll ask again.
I have received several QSLs
via email with a request for a reply. The sender
also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and
sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an
emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted
for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is
there a difference between a printed QSL and a
printed QSL that’s on a card?
The face of ham radio is
changing and so are the approaches to confirming a
QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a
paper QSL?
Pete Chamalian, W1RM
W1RM@...
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|
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Ria, N2RJ
There is no specific requirement to sign QSL cards.
Card checkers do examine cards for physical signs of forgery or non-adherence to the rules. The handwritten signature puts something on the card that can’t be duplicated via e-mail, or eQSL.
With that said, I’m sure people have printed out emailed QSLs and eQSLs and used them for award submissions successfully. However, a card for a contact with Italy or Germany on 20 meters would be scrutinized a lot less than one for North Korea on 160, to use two extreme examples. My 160m cards have always had more scrutiny on them with the card checker noting the time of the contact on the DXCC forms.
Cards get rejected for all sorts of reasons including scratching off the contact info and replacing it with something else. In that case the card checker will ask you to forward the card to the awards desk for further verification.
Ria N2RJ
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:05 PM w2ttt < w2ttt@...> wrote:
Ria,
Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?
I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope. Are they not valid?
If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card?
73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964
There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail.
This way it becomes a regular QSL card…
Otherwise no go.
73
Ria
N2RJ
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM < w1rm@...> wrote:
I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
Pete Chamalian, W1RM
W1RM@...
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Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
Ria,
Well, point taken about North Korea. I'm not going to look for their operators, but I'll work them out of courtesy if they call me. To me it's like talking with Cubans. I'll leave that topic alone except to ask how their domestic operators got their licenses?
I'm about as impressed with someone who has worked 300 entities as I am about someone else who has worked 200 or 250. They're all good.
Keep in mind that I got into ham radio after ten years as an SWL and earned the ticket to get off of HF and get onto the VHF/UHF+ bands! :-)
I've never craved DXCC, preferring grid squares for their more agnostic, albeit imperfect, definition.
After almost 47 years, I just got around to getting WAS because my logging program and LoTW automated it. I decided to punch the ticket at 100 countries on 40m as it isn't 20m. :-) Almost there, just give me a few more months, or maybe the DX Phone Contest
next month. Maybe later I'll do it on the VHF/UHF bands, but my wallspace is limited by radio gear! :-)
Honestly, I think these awards are useful in demonstrating the fun of meeting the technical and operator skill challenges of Amateur Radio to others getting into the hobby, or an aspect of the hobby.
As I've said before, it's a shame that we need all the authentication nonsense in LoTW because folks willfully cheat. Having gone through the LoTW administration process, "awards" are now less of a paperwork process and that is always good. I have ACLog
automatically uploading my QSOs and I just need to download the confirmations.
As for QSLs, they are also instructive tools and momentos of good times. Anti-faud is not their raison d'etre, so I really don't care how they come.
73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964
W2TTT@...
Get On The Air!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:50:44 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
There is no specific requirement to sign QSL cards.
Card checkers do examine cards for physical signs of forgery or non-adherence to the rules. The handwritten signature puts something on the card that can’t be duplicated via e-mail, or eQSL.
With that said, I’m sure people have printed out emailed QSLs and eQSLs and used them for award submissions successfully. However, a card for a contact with Italy or Germany on 20 meters would be scrutinized a lot less than one for North Korea
on 160, to use two extreme examples. My 160m cards have always had more scrutiny on them with the card checker noting the time of the contact on the DXCC forms.
Cards get rejected for all sorts of reasons including scratching off the contact info and replacing it with something else. In that case the card checker will ask you to forward the card to the awards desk for further verification.
Ria
N2RJ
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:05 PM w2ttt < w2ttt@...> wrote:
Ria,
Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?
I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope. Are they not valid?
If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card?
73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964
There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail.
This way it becomes a regular QSL card…
Otherwise no go.
73
Ria
N2RJ
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM < w1rm@...> wrote:
I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
Pete Chamalian, W1RM
W1RM@...
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OMG !!! This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :) The original question was.....
Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL?
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?
If not, then why?
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
End Quote
He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working, that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......
By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.
To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?
My reply is simply.......
Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.
Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW)
wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.
I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.
I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others
Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.
Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK
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I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations. I
also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations. Not everyone
uses wither so paper still works for me. In fact not everyone has
paper cards these days. To improve my confirmations responses, I'll
include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any
QSL info in QRZ. I've attached a sample. Often a ham will say they
do not QSL via mail. If that's the case I'll send them an email if
shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter
card and return it in the SASE. That has greatly improved my
returns.
I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be
counted for an award. I'll follow up as noted above and try to get
a QSL that will work for me.
Andy
WA2ONG
On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott
Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:
OMG !!!
This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and
probably fall far from the bullseye :)
The original question was.....
Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a
reply.
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and
sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any
value to an emailed QSL?
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it
count?
If not, then why?
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL
that’s on a card?
The face of ham
radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a
QSO.
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
End Quote
He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not
even worth working, that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......
By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being
Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid
Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not
everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing
and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great
hobby.
To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?
My reply is simply.......
Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and
is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.
Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as
promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to
LOTW)
wait a week and
check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised
and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am
sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't
answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check
with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.
I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes,
Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very
valuable to some of those recipients.
I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email
request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to
others
Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to
anyone.
Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK
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HH Brakob
Please don’t ignore it.
A fellow ham took some trouble to acknowledge a contact with your station.
Please don’t ignore it.
73, de Hans, KØHB
“Just a Boy and his Radio”™
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of wa3pzo via groups.arrl.org <wa3pzo=aol.com@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 4:20 PM
To: ARRL-Awards
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
Hi Pete,
I just got one emailed. It originated by a service in Europe. It was from a U S ham for a 2015 qso. The photo was the same as his card on EQSL. I'm going to ignore it.
73
Bob
I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
Pete Chamalian, W1RM
W1RM@...
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Gilbert Baron
Emailed cards with digital signatures should be accepted. They are not but they should be. Many MUCH more important legal papers are. I am not holding my breath here though. Outlook LT Gil W0MN Hierro Candente Batir de Repente 44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Andy Jezioro Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 10:57 AM To: ARRL-Awards@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations. I also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations. Not everyone uses wither so paper still works for me. In fact not everyone has paper cards these days. To improve my confirmations responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ. I've attached a sample. Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail. If that's the case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in the SASE. That has greatly improved my returns.
I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be counted for an award. I'll follow up as noted above and try to get a QSL that will work for me.
Andy
WA2ONG On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote: OMG !!!
This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)
The original question was.....
Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL?
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?
If not, then why?
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card? The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
End Quote
He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working, that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......
By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.
To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?
My reply is simply.......
Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.
Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW) wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.
I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.
I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others
Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.
Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK
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I agree.
There will be many more of these email qsls. I have received a
couple and I have been fairly inactive. It seems to be a newer
service that also sends out buro cards.
Personally I have stopped with Buro cards. I will LOTW and direct
with SASE and postage.
I have mixed feelings as I do fondly remember as a young ham,
waiting to get off the school bus to run to the mailbox and see if
I got any cards that day. It took a long time for that fondness
to lessen. Paying for DX cards or LOTW has also changed the
playing field.
W0MU
On 1/17/2022 3:39 PM, Gilbert Baron
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Emailed cards with digital signatures
should be accepted. They are not but they should be. Many MUCH
more important legal papers are. I am not holding my breath
here though.
Outlook LT Gil W0MN
Hierro Candente Batir de Repente
44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb
I actively
work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations. I also
am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations. Not everyone
uses wither so paper still works for me. In fact not everyone
has paper cards these days. To improve my confirmations
responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE
if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ. I've attached a sample.
Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail. If that's the
case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if
they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in
the SASE. That has greatly improved my returns.
I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it
can't be counted for an award. I'll follow up as noted above
and try to get a QSL that will work for me.
Andy
WA2ONG
On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith
KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:
OMG !!!
This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it
and probably fall far from the bullseye :)
The original question was.....
Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for
a reply.
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and
sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is
there any value to an emailed QSL?
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would
it count?
If not, then why?
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed
QSL that’s on a card?
The
face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to
confirming a QSO.
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
End Quote
He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is
not even worth working, that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......
By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in
being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on
working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that
not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy
doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of
enjoying our great hobby.
To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?
My reply is simply.......
Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested
it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first
place.
Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as
promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload
to LOTW)
wait
a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as
promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL
and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their
end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS,
don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting
a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.
I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It
Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins
are very valuable to some of those recipients.
I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an
email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so,
promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of
value to others
Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to
anyone.
Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK
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|
|
I appreciate all the comments. It gives me pause as to how to proceed when I receive a qsl via email. There is software available to generate a paper qsl from a log or adi file. I don’t wish to be impolite to someone sending me a qsl via email but at the same time I want to follow the appropriate rules. Connecticut is not rare, although there seems to be some interest in working us for the FT crowd and I did get an email from a station in DU who had heard me on 20 and needed CT. We set several skeds and finally managed a QSO. He was only running 100 w to a simple loop so working him was a bit of a feat. I think I will create a special (unique) QSL for the email reply and put on it, not valid for any award. This way, I can be polite and yet not tempt the recipient to use it. I am more than happy to reply to any paper QSL and I routinely load all logs to LoTW. Pete Chamalian, W1RM W1RM@...
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Ria, N2RJ Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:51 AM To: ARRL-Awards@... Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs There is no specific requirement to sign QSL cards. Card checkers do examine cards for physical signs of forgery or non-adherence to the rules. The handwritten signature puts something on the card that can’t be duplicated via e-mail, or eQSL. With that said, I’m sure people have printed out emailed QSLs and eQSLs and used them for award submissions successfully. However, a card for a contact with Italy or Germany on 20 meters would be scrutinized a lot less than one for North Korea on 160, to use two extreme examples. My 160m cards have always had more scrutiny on them with the card checker noting the time of the contact on the DXCC forms. Cards get rejected for all sorts of reasons including scratching off the contact info and replacing it with something else. In that case the card checker will ask you to forward the card to the awards desk for further verification. On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:05 PM w2ttt <w2ttt@...> wrote: Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed? I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope. Are they not valid? If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card?
There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail. This way it becomes a regular QSL card… On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote: I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again. I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau. Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card? The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? Pete Chamalian, W1RM W1RM@...
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Ria, N2RJ
None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures.
But if they did, I would support them being accepted.
The other side of this is that some hams want to give you a reason to send them $3 USD or more even if it’s by PayPal. So I don’t think direct paper cards will ever go away.
Ria N2RJ
On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 5:39 PM Gilbert Baron < w0mn00@...> wrote: Emailed cards with digital signatures should be accepted. They are not but they should be. Many MUCH more important legal papers are. I am not holding my breath here though. Outlook LT Gil W0MN Hierro Candente Batir de Repente 44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations. I also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations. Not everyone uses wither so paper still works for me. In fact not everyone has paper cards these days. To improve my confirmations responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ. I've attached a sample. Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail. If that's the case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in the SASE. That has greatly improved my returns.
I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be counted for an award. I'll follow up as noted above and try to get a QSL that will work for me.
Andy
WA2ONG
On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote: OMG !!!
This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)
The original question was.....
Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL?
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?
If not, then why?
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card? The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
End Quote
He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working, that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......
By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.
To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?
My reply is simply.......
Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.
Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW) wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.
I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.
I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others
Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.
Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK
|
|
|
K8TS
Pete; I have not followed this thread very closely, so this may have already been said. If all he wants is an inexpensive piece of paper, use eQSL, it is free, if you are not working for awards. I used to upload my logs to them for those that use that system for awards (they have their own award program). At this time I refuse to do so anymore because of all the bogus ones. I do seek ARRL awards, but eQSL is not a counter. I treasure QSL cards, many of them tell a story that even the layman can understand. I have run out of wall space but the story ones stay on the wall. It appears all he wants is a cheap qsl at your expense, not his or he would have sent you a card. I will admit that in some poorer countries the cost of a qsl my be prohitive, but if he owns a computer, that should not be an issue. I do honor all swl cards if they send a card. In many countries, a swl has to spend a period of time prior to obtaining a ham license. Dale K8TS Sent from Mail for Windows
From: Pete W1RMSent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 9:29 AM To: ARRL-Awards@...Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs I appreciate all the comments. It gives me pause as to how to proceed when I receive a qsl via email. There is software available to generate a paper qsl from a log or adi file. I don’t wish to be impolite to someone sending me a qsl via email but at the same time I want to follow the appropriate rules. Connecticut is not rare, although there seems to be some interest in working us for the FT crowd and I did get an email from a station in DU who had heard me on 20 and needed CT. We set several skeds and finally managed a QSO. He was only running 100 w to a simple loop so working him was a bit of a feat. I think I will create a special (unique) QSL for the email reply and put on it, not valid for any award. This way, I can be polite and yet not tempt the recipient to use it. I am more than happy to reply to any paper QSL and I routinely load all logs to LoTW. Pete Chamalian, W1RM W1RM@... From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Ria, N2RJ
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:51 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs There is no specific requirement to sign QSL cards. Card checkers do examine cards for physical signs of forgery or non-adherence to the rules. The handwritten signature puts something on the card that can’t be duplicated via e-mail, or eQSL. With that said, I’m sure people have printed out emailed QSLs and eQSLs and used them for award submissions successfully. However, a card for a contact with Italy or Germany on 20 meters would be scrutinized a lot less than one for North Korea on 160, to use two extreme examples. My 160m cards have always had more scrutiny on them with the card checker noting the time of the contact on the DXCC forms. Cards get rejected for all sorts of reasons including scratching off the contact info and replacing it with something else. In that case the card checker will ask you to forward the card to the awards desk for further verification. On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:05 PM w2ttt <w2ttt@...> wrote: Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed? I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope. Are they not valid? If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card? 
There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail. This way it becomes a regular QSL card… On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote: I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again. I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau. Is there any value to an emailed QSL? If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? If not, then why? Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card? The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? Pete Chamalian, W1RM W1RM@...
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