Emailed QSLs


Pete W1RM <w1rm@...>
 

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 


wa3pzo
 

Hi Pete,

I just got one emailed. It originated by a service in Europe.  It was from a U S ham for a 2015 qso. The photo was the same as his card on EQSL.  I'm going to ignore it. 

73

Bob


On Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM, Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote:

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 



Dave AA6YQ
 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and
sending a QSL via the bureau.

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?

+ Emailed QSL's are not valid for ARRL awards. They may be valuable to you as wallpaper.

If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?

+ It would not count for any ARRL-sponsored award.

If not, then why?

+ Because the rules for each ARRL-sponsored award explicitly state so.

Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that's on a card?

+ Yes: it would be trivial to forge a QSL card that you print. It's more difficult to undetectably alter a printed and signed QSL
card that you've received from your QSO partner, and ARRL staff are quite good at detecting such alterations.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Ria, N2RJ
 

There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail. 

This way it becomes a regular QSL card…

Otherwise no go. 

73
Ria
N2RJ

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote:

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 


Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
 

Hi,

At this time the only possible value for an emailed QSL is the good feeling it gives you and the sender... No value for awards.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 1/16/22 14:09, Pete W1RM wrote:
I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
Pete Chamalian, W1RM
W1RM@...


HH Brakob
 

Every QSL, regardless of how I receive it, is valid and valuable to me.

A radio club based in Connecticut may or may not accept it for one or more of their club awards, but that doesn’t make it “invalid”.  It is still a good QSL.

73, de Hans, KØHB
“Just a Boy and his Radio”™

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 7:08:03 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
 
Hi,

At this time the only possible value for an emailed QSL is the good
feeling it gives you and the sender...  No value for awards.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 1/16/22 14:09, Pete W1RM wrote:
> I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
>
> I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The
> sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via
> the bureau.
>
> Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and
> submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a
> difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
>
> The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to
> confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
>
> Pete Chamalian, W1RM
>
> W1RM@...
>
>






Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
 

Hans,

I think you quoted the wrong post, I did not say they were "invalid", I said the value was to the holder, and sender...

You quoted "invalid", and I did not use the word "invalid", so I am assuming you were responding to some other post, not mine.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 1/16/22 18:39, HH Brakob wrote:
Every QSL, regardless of how I receive it, is valid and valuable to me.
A radio club based in Connecticut may or may not accept it for one or more of their club awards, but that doesn’t make it “invalid”.  It is still a good QSL.
73, de Hans, KØHB
“Just a Boy and his Radio”™
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, January 16, 2022 7:08:03 PM
*To:* ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
*Subject:* Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
Hi,
At this time the only possible value for an emailed QSL is the good
feeling it gives you and the sender...  No value for awards.
73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
On 1/16/22 14:09, Pete W1RM wrote:
I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.
Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
Pete Chamalian, W1RM
W1RM@...


HH Brakob
 

Mia culpa, Dave.

My point is that every QSL is valid to those who participated in the contact.  ARRL has no say in that matter, except in the case that you might wish to apply for one of their awards.

The fun is in the contact, not in the paperwork.

73, de Hans, KØHB
“Just a Boy and his Radio”™

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 9:06:43 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
 
Hans,

I think you quoted the wrong post, I did not say they were "invalid", I
said the value was to the holder, and sender...

You quoted "invalid", and I did not use the word "invalid", so I am
assuming you were responding to some other post, not mine.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 1/16/22 18:39, HH Brakob wrote:
> Every QSL, regardless of how I receive it, is valid and valuable to me.
>
> A radio club based in Connecticut may or may not accept it for one or
> more of their club awards, but that doesn’t make it “invalid”.  It is
> still a good QSL.
>
> 73, de Hans, KØHB
> “Just a Boy and his Radio”™
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on
> behalf of Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 16, 2022 7:08:03 PM
> *To:* ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
> *Subject:* Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
> Hi,
>
> At this time the only possible value for an emailed QSL is the good
> feeling it gives you and the sender...  No value for awards.
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 1/16/22 14:09, Pete W1RM wrote:
>> I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.
>>
>> I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The
>> sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via
>> the bureau.
>>
>> Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and
>> submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a
>> difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?
>>
>> The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to
>> confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL?
>>
>> Pete Chamalian, W1RM
>>
>> W1RM@...
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
 

Ria,
Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?
I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope.  Are they not valid?
If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card? 
73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964
W2TTT@...



From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:57:52 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
 
There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail. 

This way it becomes a regular QSL card…

Otherwise no go. 

73
Ria
N2RJ

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote:

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 


Steven Rutledge <steven.t.rutledge@...>
 

Come on Gordon........

Steve, N4JQQ

On 1/16/2022 10:05 PM, w2ttt wrote:

Ria,
Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?
I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope.  Are they not valid?
If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card? 
73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964



From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:57:52 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
 
There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail. 

This way it becomes a regular QSL card…

Otherwise no go. 

73
Ria
N2RJ

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote:

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 


Ria, N2RJ
 

There is no specific requirement to sign QSL cards.

Card checkers do examine cards for physical signs of forgery or non-adherence to the rules. The handwritten signature puts something on the card that can’t be duplicated via e-mail, or eQSL. 

With that said, I’m sure people have printed out emailed QSLs and eQSLs and used them for award submissions successfully. However, a card for a contact with Italy or Germany on 20 meters would be scrutinized a lot less than one for North Korea on 160, to use two extreme examples. My 160m cards have always had more scrutiny on them with the card checker noting the time of the contact on the DXCC forms. 

Cards get rejected for all sorts of reasons including scratching off the contact info and replacing it with something else. In that case the card checker will ask you to forward the card to the awards desk for further verification.

Ria
N2RJ




On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:05 PM w2ttt <w2ttt@...> wrote:
Ria,
Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?
I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope.  Are they not valid?
If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card? 
73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964



From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:57:52 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
 
There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail. 

This way it becomes a regular QSL card…

Otherwise no go. 

73
Ria
N2RJ

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote:

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 


Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
 

Ria,

Well, point taken about North Korea.  I'm not going to look for their operators, but I'll work them out of courtesy if they call me.  To me it's like talking with Cubans.  I'll leave that topic alone except to ask how their domestic operators got their licenses? 

I'm about as impressed with someone who has worked 300 entities as I am about someone else who has worked 200 or 250.  They're all good.

Keep in mind that I got into ham radio after ten years as an SWL and earned the ticket to get off of HF and get onto the VHF/UHF+ bands!  :-)

I've never craved DXCC, preferring grid squares for their more agnostic, albeit imperfect, definition.

After almost 47 years, I just got around to getting WAS because my logging program and LoTW automated it. I decided to punch the ticket at 100 countries on 40m as it isn't 20m.  :-)  Almost there, just give me a few more months, or maybe the DX Phone Contest next month.  Maybe later I'll do it on the VHF/UHF bands, but my wallspace is limited by radio gear!  :-) 

Honestly, I think these awards are useful in demonstrating the fun of meeting the technical and operator skill challenges of Amateur Radio to others getting into the hobby, or an aspect of the hobby.

As I've said before, it's a shame that we need all the authentication nonsense in LoTW because folks willfully cheat.  Having gone through the LoTW  administration process, "awards" are now less of a paperwork process and that is always good.  I have ACLog automatically uploading my QSOs and I just need to download the confirmations. 

As for QSLs, they are also instructive tools and momentos of good times.  Anti-faud is not their raison d'etre, so I really don't care how they come.  

73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964
W2TTT@...

Get On The Air!


From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:50:44 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
 
There is no specific requirement to sign QSL cards.

Card checkers do examine cards for physical signs of forgery or non-adherence to the rules. The handwritten signature puts something on the card that can’t be duplicated via e-mail, or eQSL. 

With that said, I’m sure people have printed out emailed QSLs and eQSLs and used them for award submissions successfully. However, a card for a contact with Italy or Germany on 20 meters would be scrutinized a lot less than one for North Korea on 160, to use two extreme examples. My 160m cards have always had more scrutiny on them with the card checker noting the time of the contact on the DXCC forms. 

Cards get rejected for all sorts of reasons including scratching off the contact info and replacing it with something else. In that case the card checker will ask you to forward the card to the awards desk for further verification.

Ria
N2RJ




On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:05 PM w2ttt <w2ttt@...> wrote:

Ria,
Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?
I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope.  Are they not valid?
If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card? 
73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964



From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:57:52 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
 
There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail. 

This way it becomes a regular QSL card…

Otherwise no go. 

73
Ria
N2RJ

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote:

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 


 

OMG !!!

This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)

The original question was.....


Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. 
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL? 
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? 
If not, then why? 
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. 
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 
End Quote

He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working,  that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......

By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.

To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?

My reply is simply.......

Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.

Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW)

wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.

I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.

I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others

Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.

Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK


Andy Jezioro
 

I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations.  I also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations.  Not everyone uses wither so paper still works for me.  In fact not everyone has paper cards these days.  To improve my confirmations responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ.  I've attached a sample.  Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail.  If that's the case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in the SASE.  That has greatly improved my returns.

I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be counted for an award.  I'll follow up as noted above and try to get a QSL that will work for me.

Andy
WA2ONG

On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:

OMG !!!

This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)

The original question was.....


Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. 
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL? 
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? 
If not, then why? 
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. 
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 
End Quote

He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working,  that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......

By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.

To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?

My reply is simply.......

Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.

Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW)

wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.

I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.

I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others

Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.

Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK



HH Brakob
 

Please don’t ignore it.  

A fellow ham took some trouble to acknowledge a contact with your station.  

Please don’t ignore it.

73, de Hans, KØHB
“Just a Boy and his Radio”™

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of wa3pzo via groups.arrl.org <wa3pzo=aol.com@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 4:20 PM
To: ARRL-Awards
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
 
Hi Pete,

I just got one emailed. It originated by a service in Europe.  It was from a U S ham for a 2015 qso. The photo was the same as his card on EQSL.  I'm going to ignore it. 

73

Bob



On Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM, Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote:

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 



Gilbert Baron
 

Emailed cards with digital signatures should be accepted. They are not but they should be. Many MUCH more important legal papers are. I am not holding my breath here though.

 

Outlook LT Gil W0MN

Hierro Candente Batir de Repente

44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb

 

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Andy Jezioro
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 10:57 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations.  I also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations.  Not everyone uses wither so paper still works for me.  In fact not everyone has paper cards these days.  To improve my confirmations responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ.  I've attached a sample.  Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail.  If that's the case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in the SASE.  That has greatly improved my returns.

I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be counted for an award.  I'll follow up as noted above and try to get a QSL that will work for me.

Andy
WA2ONG

On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:

OMG !!!

This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)

The original question was.....


Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. 
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL? 
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? 
If not, then why? 
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. 
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 
End Quote

He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working,  that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......

By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.

To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?

My reply is simply.......

Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.

Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW)

wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.

I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.

I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others

Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.

Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK

 


W0MU
 

I agree. 

There will be many more of these email qsls.  I have received a couple and I have been fairly inactive.  It seems to be a newer service that also sends out buro cards. 

Personally I have stopped with Buro cards.  I will LOTW and direct with SASE and postage. 

I have mixed feelings as I do fondly remember as a young ham, waiting to get off the school bus to run to the mailbox and see if I got any cards that day.   It took a long time for that fondness to lessen.  Paying for DX cards or LOTW has also changed the playing field. 

W0MU


On 1/17/2022 3:39 PM, Gilbert Baron wrote:

Emailed cards with digital signatures should be accepted. They are not but they should be. Many MUCH more important legal papers are. I am not holding my breath here though.

 

Outlook LT Gil W0MN

Hierro Candente Batir de Repente

44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb

 

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Andy Jezioro
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 10:57 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations.  I also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations.  Not everyone uses wither so paper still works for me.  In fact not everyone has paper cards these days.  To improve my confirmations responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ.  I've attached a sample.  Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail.  If that's the case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in the SASE.  That has greatly improved my returns.

I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be counted for an award.  I'll follow up as noted above and try to get a QSL that will work for me.

Andy
WA2ONG

On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:

OMG !!!

This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)

The original question was.....


Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. 
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL? 
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? 
If not, then why? 
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. 
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 
End Quote

He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working,  that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......

By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.

To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?

My reply is simply.......

Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.

Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW)

wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.

I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.

I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others

Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.

Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK

 


Pete W1RM <w1rm@...>
 

I appreciate all the comments.  It gives me pause as to how to proceed when I receive a qsl via email.  There is software available to generate a paper qsl from a log or adi file. 

 

I don’t wish to be impolite to someone sending me a qsl via email but at the same time I want to follow the appropriate rules.  Connecticut is not rare, although there seems to be some interest in working us for the FT crowd and I did get an email from a station in DU who had heard me on 20 and needed CT.  We set several skeds and finally managed a QSO.  He was only running 100 w to a simple loop so working him was a bit of a feat.

 

I think I will create a special (unique) QSL for the email reply and put on it, not valid for any award.  This way, I can be polite and yet not tempt the recipient to use it.  I am more than happy to reply to any paper QSL and I routinely load all logs to LoTW.

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Ria, N2RJ
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:51 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

There is no specific requirement to sign QSL cards.

 

Card checkers do examine cards for physical signs of forgery or non-adherence to the rules. The handwritten signature puts something on the card that can’t be duplicated via e-mail, or eQSL. 

 

With that said, I’m sure people have printed out emailed QSLs and eQSLs and used them for award submissions successfully. However, a card for a contact with Italy or Germany on 20 meters would be scrutinized a lot less than one for North Korea on 160, to use two extreme examples. My 160m cards have always had more scrutiny on them with the card checker noting the time of the contact on the DXCC forms. 

 

Cards get rejected for all sorts of reasons including scratching off the contact info and replacing it with something else. In that case the card checker will ask you to forward the card to the awards desk for further verification.

 

Ria

N2RJ

 

 

 

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:05 PM w2ttt <w2ttt@...> wrote:

Ria,

Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?

I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope.  Are they not valid?

If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card? 

73,

Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

201.314.6964

 

 


From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:57:52 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail. 

 

This way it becomes a regular QSL card…

 

Otherwise no go. 

 

73

Ria

N2RJ

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote:

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 


Ria, N2RJ
 

None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures. 

But if they did, I would support them being accepted.

The other side of this is that some hams want to give you a reason to send them $3 USD or more even if it’s by PayPal. So I don’t think direct paper cards will ever go away. 

Ria
N2RJ

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 5:39 PM Gilbert Baron <w0mn00@...> wrote:

Emailed cards with digital signatures should be accepted. They are not but they should be. Many MUCH more important legal papers are. I am not holding my breath here though.

 

Outlook LT Gil W0MN

Hierro Candente Batir de Repente

44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb

 

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Andy Jezioro
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 10:57 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations.  I also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations.  Not everyone uses wither so paper still works for me.  In fact not everyone has paper cards these days.  To improve my confirmations responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ.  I've attached a sample.  Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail.  If that's the case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in the SASE.  That has greatly improved my returns.



I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be counted for an award.  I'll follow up as noted above and try to get a QSL that will work for me.

Andy
WA2ONG

On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:

OMG !!!

This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)

The original question was.....


Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. 
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL? 
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? 
If not, then why? 
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. 
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 
End Quote

He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working,  that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......

By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.

To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?

My reply is simply.......

Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.

Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW)

wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.

I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.

I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others

Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.

Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK

 


K8TS
 

Pete;

I have not followed this thread very closely, so this may have already been said.

If all he wants is an inexpensive piece of paper, use eQSL, it is free, if you are not working for awards.

I used to upload my logs to them for those that use that system for awards (they have their own award program).

At this time I refuse to do so anymore because of all the bogus ones. I do seek ARRL awards, but eQSL is not a counter.

 

I treasure QSL cards, many of them tell a story that even the layman can understand. I have run out of wall space but the story ones stay on  the wall.

 

It appears all he wants is a cheap qsl at your expense, not his or he would have sent you a card. I will admit that in some poorer countries

                the cost of a qsl my be prohitive, but if he owns a computer, that should not be an issue.

 

I do honor all swl cards if they send a card. In many countries, a swl has to spend a period of time prior to obtaining a ham license.

Dale K8TS

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Pete W1RM
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 9:29 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

I appreciate all the comments.  It gives me pause as to how to proceed when I receive a qsl via email.  There is software available to generate a paper qsl from a log or adi file. 

 

I don’t wish to be impolite to someone sending me a qsl via email but at the same time I want to follow the appropriate rules.  Connecticut is not rare, although there seems to be some interest in working us for the FT crowd and I did get an email from a station in DU who had heard me on 20 and needed CT.  We set several skeds and finally managed a QSO.  He was only running 100 w to a simple loop so working him was a bit of a feat.

 

I think I will create a special (unique) QSL for the email reply and put on it, not valid for any award.  This way, I can be polite and yet not tempt the recipient to use it.  I am more than happy to reply to any paper QSL and I routinely load all logs to LoTW.

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Ria, N2RJ
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:51 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

There is no specific requirement to sign QSL cards.

 

Card checkers do examine cards for physical signs of forgery or non-adherence to the rules. The handwritten signature puts something on the card that can’t be duplicated via e-mail, or eQSL. 

 

With that said, I’m sure people have printed out emailed QSLs and eQSLs and used them for award submissions successfully. However, a card for a contact with Italy or Germany on 20 meters would be scrutinized a lot less than one for North Korea on 160, to use two extreme examples. My 160m cards have always had more scrutiny on them with the card checker noting the time of the contact on the DXCC forms. 

 

Cards get rejected for all sorts of reasons including scratching off the contact info and replacing it with something else. In that case the card checker will ask you to forward the card to the awards desk for further verification.

 

Ria

N2RJ

 

 

 

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:05 PM w2ttt <w2ttt@...> wrote:

Ria,

Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?

I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope.  Are they not valid?

If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card? 

73,

Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

201.314.6964

 

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:57:52 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail. 

 

This way it becomes a regular QSL card…

 

Otherwise no go. 

 

73

Ria

N2RJ

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote:

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...