Forum Issue?
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Is it possible that the staff and management of ARRL are monitoring a different set of forums rather than these which where created by the Communications Committee. The forums that I refer to are located on the opening page of the ARRL Web Site. The link takes you here:
It specifically indicates that staff and personnel at HQ are monitoring these forums from the ARRL site. Realizing there are a few Directors and SM following the groups.io pages, I at times wonder if the HQ community as a whole know these exist, even though they were publicly announced. Some posts pre-date these groups, but many have been made since. Is this possible? Just saying.. Dale K8TS Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Gary Hinson <Gary@...>
It’s ironic that a bunch of people who are clearly passionate about communicating don’t always communicate effectively!
73 Gary ZL2iFB
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of K8TS
Sent: 29 July 2021 13:22 To: ARRL-Awards@... Subject: [ARRL-Awards] Forum Issue?
Is it possible that the staff and management of ARRL are monitoring a different set of forums rather than these which where created by the Communications Committee. The forums that I refer to are located on the opening page of the ARRL Web Site. The link takes you here:
It specifically indicates that staff and personnel at HQ are monitoring these forums from the ARRL site. Realizing there are a few Directors and SM following the groups.io pages, I at times wonder if the HQ community as a whole know these exist, even though they were publicly announced. Some posts pre-date these groups, but many have been made since. Is this possible? Just saying.. Dale K8TS Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Dave AA6YQ
+ AA6YQ comments below
Is it possible that the staff and management of ARRL are monitoring a different set of forums rather than these which where created by the Communications Committee. The forums that I refer to are located on the opening page of the ARRL Web Site. The link takes you here: Forum » Home (arrl.org) <http://www.arrl.org/forum> It specifically indicates that staff and personnel at HQ are monitoring these forums from the ARRL site. Realizing there are a few Directors and SM following the groups.io pages, I at times wonder if the HQ community as a whole know these exist, even though they were publicly announced. Some posts pre-date these groups, but many have been made since. + The forums in https://www.arrl.org/forum + are only accessible to ARRL members. Those covered by the 7 "open to everyone" forums established by the "Member Communications" Committee were to have been closed to prevent confusion. Two years later, that hasn't yet been accomplished; it's often difficult to tell whether the ARRL has died, or is just operating at its usual glacial pace - especially when changes to an ARRL web page are involved. 73, Dave, AA6YQ |
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Dave AA6YQ
+ AA6YQ comments below
It’s ironic that a bunch of people who are clearly passionate about communicating don’t always communicate effectively! + The problem here isn't a failure to communicate; it's a failure by the ARRL to execute a task assigned and accepted more than a year ago. And frankly, ARRL leadership doesn't give a damn, as we've heard from the Dakotas Director. 73, Dave, AA6YQ |
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W0MU
90 percent of all fire
ground incidents are because of comm issues. Similar numbers for
corporate problems. People have a hard time communicating clearly
and effectively.
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On 7/28/2021 7:25 PM, Gary Hinson
wrote:
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Dave AA6YQ
+ AA6YQ comments below
90 percent of all fire ground incidents are because of comm issues. Similar numbers for corporate problems. People have a hard time communicating clearly and effectively. + This was not a "comm issue". ARRL employee David Isgur was assigned the ownership of the new "open to everyone" online groups when the "Communications with Members" Committee was disbanded by the Board of Directors. His responsibilities included informing new Directors of the existence of these groups, and encouraging ARRL Directors, Executives, Managers, and Staff to actively participate in them. Mr. Isgur left the ARRL sometime after the Committee was disbanded. Either no one from the ARRL debriefed him to understand his responsibilities, or he was debriefed but his responsibilities were not assigned one or more ARRL staff members, or the ARRL staff members to whom his responsibilities were assigned have failed to execute them; whichever, a tour-de-force of management incompetence. + And it's so nice to have an un-informed Director blame the volunteers who created and moderate the new groups without having lifted a finger to first understand the situation. The ARRL has more competent volunteers than it knows what to do with, and so can afford to demotivate them without thinking about it. Well done, sir! 73, Dave, AA6YQ |
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W0MU
It seems like some
directors live in an different world of the ARRL than the
members. Could this be a problem????????????
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W0MU On 7/28/2021 8:13 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
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Dave AA6YQ
It seems like some directors live in an different world of the ARRL than the members. Could this be a problem????????????
+ There's no way to know, because their deliberations are concealed. de AA6YQ |
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Steven Rutledge <steven.t.rutledge@...>
Probably a huge gap between the directors and the paid staff. ARRL staff probably goes about their business with little interaction of BOD. Probably not intentional, I hope, but who knows. In a perfect world, the paid employees would have a plan, set by the BOD, and implement that plan. There seems to be a disconnect, doesn't there? Steve, N4JQQ On 7/28/2021 9:51 PM, W0MU wrote:
It seems like some directors live in an different world of the ARRL than the members. Could this be a problem???????????? |
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We do not govern staff directly.
We set policy and the CEO is responsible for implementation. He then delegates to department managers who then delegate to staff. 73 Ria, N2RJ On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 5:34 PM Steven Rutledge <steven.t.rutledge@...> wrote:
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Someone could possibly convince me to not Un subscribe to this Group, or not :) Why am I considering Unsubscribe, because it is obvious I am only hear to listen as an SM has no meaningful input based I what I have seen from feedback members only want addressed by Directors or ARRL Staff in the last thread that I chose to Mute myself out of I feel I should only contribute where it is useful Apologies for the wasted bandwidth and I will listen for one or two more rounds Cheers! Steve KG5VK Tele 318-470-9806 ARRL NTX Section Manager Please note: My Out Going Email address is LottsPhoto@... KG5VK@... is forwarded to my Gmail address On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 5:25 PM Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...> wrote: We do not govern staff directly. |
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Barry Porter KB1PA
The way it is “supposed to be” but in reality it is not:
SMs take feedback from their members, and give this info to their Division Director. This is what is broken. Most Division Directors do not want or care to listen to the SMs. We are supposed to be in the Directors cabinet, and the Directors are supposed to have cabinet meetings. Again, broken. However, This should NOT stop you from taking feedback from places like here, and reporting this feedback to your Director, and Documenting that feedback was sent. Also request followup on any actions taken or not taken. As has been said here before, the Directors need to be accountable to their members, and if they are not, WE have the power of the ballot box (the executive committee and other directors do not have this power (other than rigging elections but that is another story). Stay subscribed, your presence here is valuable. Barry |
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Barry, Thanks for the input. The West Gulf Division director and I have a great working relationship that in fact benefit the members in our Section/Division However I get the impression no one hear could care less if an SM is listening/participating I will stick around for a bit longer in the email reflectors :) Of course I will not let it side track me from the work I do for members within North Texas 73 Steve KG5VK Tele 318-470-9806 ARRL NTX Section Manager Please note: My Out Going Email address is LottsPhoto@... KG5VK@... is forwarded to my Gmail address On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 6:43 PM Barry Porter KB1PA <kb1pa@...> wrote: The way it is “supposed to be” but in reality it is not: |
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Steve, In response to your question: In short, to get the pulse of a segment of the membership. Each elected, and even most appointed position holders need to
understand the concerns and perhaps the "temperature" of the other
members and do what is reasonable to address any negativity, even
if only through the example of how they conduct themselves.
Another idea might be to determine the SM of a person with a
concern (gripe) and forward the communication to their SM and a
relevant staffer as appropriate with a suggestion of how they
might be able to address the matter. Not everyone can be in all
places at one time, but if you spot an awards issue, or another
issues from a member, then it wouldn't hurt to alert a colleague
as to a concern of their constituent member. I have no elected position in the ARRL, but I have alerted SECs, SMs, Directors, officers and even the CEO, as appropriate, of situations along with a constructive suggestion or two. We are all stewards of this organization and if everyone constructively pitches in to address another member's concern, then we'll all be better off. The effective thing to do is to be constructive, and not just join the "pitch fork and torch chorus". :-) Thanks for all you do on behalf of the NTX Section and the League overall. 73, Gordon Beattie, W2TTT 201.314. 6964
On 29-Jul-21 06:46 PM, Steven Lott
Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:
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Dave AA6YQ
Someone could possibly convince me to not Un subscribe to this Group, or not :)
Why am I considering Unsubscribe, because it is obvious I am only hear to listen as an SM has no meaningful input based I what I have seen from feedback members only want addressed by Directors or ARRL Staff in the last thread that I chose to Mute myself out of + This and the other 6 online groups like it were created to enable direct interaction among all ARRL leaders of all levels, ARRL staff, ARRL members, and ops who are not members of the ARRL. + It has been noted here that few Directors participate in these groups. That does not mean that participation by other ARRL leaders is not desired or not value. All perspectives are welcome. 73, Dave, AA6YQ |
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AA6YQ writes:
+ And it's so nice to have an un-informed Director blame the volunteers who created and moderate the new groups without having lifted a finger to first understand the situation.
… and also writes:
+ … And frankly, ARRL leadership doesn't give a damn, as we've heard from the Dakotas Director.
There’s a level of comment, even fair comment, about the low level of League leadership involvement in these forums. I’m sure we’d all like to see more interaction from them.
The subscriber list for these groups isn’t visible, but I can surmise that other volunteers, paid staff, and elected individuals (beyond the handful that have posted) probably lurk and take action on items that they see (I have direct evidence this is true based on off channel communications I got from a concern that I aired here).
But why would they expose themselves to ad-hominem attacks similar to the ones above?
Those strident remarks do not strike me as helpful in encouraging a collegial exchange of concern/feedback/response which would benefit both the membership and the “crowd at Newington”.
73, de Hans, K0HB “Just a Boy and his Radio”
ARRL Member Diamond Club Member
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I got the distinct impression that the forums
on the web site were to be discontinued when the open groups were
established, but that may not be the case. The notice at the top
of the main page says they are accessible only by members. I
don't know how many of the various HQ departments monitor them.
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Zak, W1VT from the ARRL Lab seems to be very good at fielding technical questions. Zak puts his ARRL position in his signature, and almost always either answers the question directly or points the member at places to find the answer, or both. Many responders don't identify their ARRL position, or the responses are not from HQ representatives. For questions/complaints/observations such as the DXCC plaque issue that began this thread, the answer, if there actually is one posted, is usually "Call HQ." Forums suffer from a couple of intrinsic problems which usually severely limit their effectiveness: 1. Anyone can start a new topic with whatever name he/she desires, and there is often little reuse of topics. Looking at the list, many topics have 1 post [the original] and more than 4 posts is uncommon. 2. Because of #1, it's difficult for an organization [like the Awards desk at HQ] to wade through everything all the time. The forums are really designed for Q&A which works pretty well in the tech arena, but not so much in the daily business and policy arena. 3. While one needs to be talking with the HQ organization in charge of your issue, you end up talking to a whole bunch of other people, none of whom can actually do anything for you. Email list groups such as this one aren't much better in that regard, and may be equally bad. I've seen ARRL's basic problem in other member organizations. In ARRL's case, we saw a number of years [really decades] when the BoD became detached from the membership, possibly somewhat over-impressed with their status, and under-impressed with their responsibilities for transparency. The BS7H decision might have been made in that environment.😉 Meanwhile, the operational staff, left on its own, start to become independent, non-responsive, and autocratic, and a member who has gripe with the very difficult to obtain achievement yielding a trophy different from the usual and which he sees as tawdry gets little if any response. It's a very tough problem to solve. The only way I've ever seen it work is to put everything [and I really mean everything] on the table. That has yet to happen here. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 7/28/2021 6:21 PM, K8TS wrote:
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You're misinterpreting what Bill said, Dave. He certainly did not say that.
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I am going to step back and let others respond as well. I just hate seeing unanswered questions. It is a trait of mine. I Like to be helpful and informative. The members in the Hudson Division know this very well because I keep them very much informed as to what is going on. That doesn't mean I won't read and take feedback. The awards issue in particular is something I had to address for a member in the Hudson Division who was dismayed that he was getting a piece of plastic and not a wooden plaque. So I followed up on that, and there is positive action. But you're not going to get a play by play and some things do take time. You have my word that the CEO and HQ operations management and the radiosport department are taking the concerns seriously. 73 Ria, N2RJ On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 9:39 PM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:
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Steve, I don't know why you get that impression. As you know from our
interactions at conventions and otherwise, I listen to your feedback, even though you are not in my division. I even cited your efforts with youth at the most recent Board meeting. Don't think your voice is un-heard. Far from it. 73 Ria, N2RJ On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 7:48 PM Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM <lottsphoto@...> wrote:
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Dave AA6YQ
+ And it's so nice to have an un-informed Director blame the volunteers who created and moderate the new groups without having lifted a finger to first understand the situation.
… and also writes: + … And frankly, ARRL leadership doesn't give a damn, as we've heard from the Dakotas Director. There’s a level of comment, even fair comment, about the low level of League leadership involvement in these forums. I’m sure we’d all like to see more interaction from them. The subscriber list for these groups isn’t visible, but I can surmise that other volunteers, paid staff, and elected individuals (beyond the handful that have posted) probably lurk and take action on items that they see (I have direct evidence this is true based on off channel communications I got from a concern that I aired here). But why would they expose themselves to ad-hominem attacks similar to the ones above? + Those aren't ad hominem attacks, Hans, they are statements of fact. Re-read the post to which I was responding: https://groups.arrl.org/g/ARRL-Awards/message/1566 "But then it is pretty easy to start a list, claim to have contact with a group of individuals that most likely were not invited and then accuse them of various things" + is a list of accusations, every one of which is demonstrably false. The Dakota Division Director was clue-less about the existence of these groups because ARRL management failed to bring him up to speed, not because a volunteer member of the disbanded ARRL Committee that established these groups intentionally deceived him, as he alleged. Those strident remarks do not strike me as helpful in encouraging a collegial exchange of concern/feedback/response which would benefit both the membership and the “crowd at Newington”. + The leaders of an organization must actively solicit feedback, and accept it in any form it which arrives. Yes, it's preferable that such feedback be constructive and collegial, but when a Director attacks a volunteer for failures by ARRL Management, he or she should not expect a response strewn with rose petals. 73, Dave, AA6YQ |
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