Date   

Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Ria, N2RJ
 

The issue with the plaques now have the attention of HQ. PSC, the CEO
and the staff will be following up on them.

73
Ria, N2RJ

On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 7:22 AM Michael Adams <mda@n1en.org> wrote:

I can’t help but wonder whether folks once made the same comments about BY that they’re now making about EZ and P5.



As a relative newcomer to the hobby of chasing DX, I won’t deny wondering about whether the hard ones will ever be active and workable for me. But honestly…that’s kind of the allure of the quest to “work them all”. For me, each potential ATNO is extra-exciting because they’re rare and I don’t know if/when I’ll have a shot at trying for them again.



(I don’t think there would be any harm in giving some recognition for those who have worked every entity that’s been active in the past 25-30 years, however.)



BTW, on the subject of plaques….I will also say that I’m disappointed with the redesigned plaques. I’m not so disappointed as to complain, but I am “voting with my wallet” in the sense that when I finally get my last state-band confirmed, I probably won’t order a 5B WAS plaque, and I’m glad I got the 5B DXCC and Challenge plaques before they were redesigned.



--

Michael Adams | mda@n1en.org




Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Michael Adams
 

I can’t help but wonder whether folks once made the same comments about BY that they’re now making about EZ and P5.

 

As a relative newcomer to the hobby of chasing DX, I won’t deny wondering about whether the hard ones will ever be active and workable for me.  But honestly…that’s kind of the allure of the quest to “work them all”.  For me, each potential ATNO is extra-exciting because they’re rare and I don’t know if/when I’ll have a shot at trying for them again.

 

(I don’t think there would be any harm in giving some recognition for those who have worked every entity that’s been active in the past 25-30 years, however.)

 

BTW, on the subject of plaques….I will also say that I’m disappointed with the redesigned plaques.  I’m not so disappointed as to complain, but I am “voting with my wallet” in the sense that when I finally get my last state-band confirmed, I probably won’t order a 5B WAS plaque, and I’m glad I got  the 5B DXCC and Challenge plaques before they were redesigned.

 

--

Michael Adams | mda@...

 


Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

bmanning
 

I can see QST in 100+ years in the 100, 50 and 25 years ago column. There will be a note that the last remaining Top of the Honor Roll person died 100 years ago, and not one has ever achieved that level since. I guess everyone but me is okay with that. 

73

 Bruce NJ3K

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:39:26 +1200, "Gary Hinson" <Gary@...> wrote:

Hi Bruce.

 

Everest is still there, even with your no-climbing signs.   

 

Pretending that EZ or P5 don't exist simply because there's no amateur radio there at present is daft.

 

I understand your point, Bruce, but that's not how DXCC works. 

 

The challenge to work EZ or P5 includes the challenge of convincing the authorities that amateur radio is at worst benign, and in some ways beneficial for them.  Getting operating permission and the correct paperwork from the relevant authorities is part of the battle to reach the summit – just as chartering a ship, braving the roaring forties and scrambling up ice cliffs with the gear and supplies is part of the battle to activate Bouvet, Heard or Peter islands.

 

You seem to believe EZ will never be activated, at least not in your lifetime or mine for that matter.  I'm more optimistic, idly wondering what, if anything, the global amateur community can do to help surmount the obstacles ...

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of bmanning
Sent: 02 June 2021 14:11
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

 

Gary

Well said. But what if the government that controls Mount Everest put up a no trespass sign, and stayed there for several generations? The DXCC rules are good as they are. But at least Mount Everest is still available. You and definitely me, are never going to climb it, but it's still open.

73

 Bruce NJ3K 

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Jim Preston N6VH <N6VH@...>

Date: 6/1/21 17:18 (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

 

Gary,

That is an excellent analogy. Well said.

73,

Jim N6VH

On 6/1/2021 12:19 PM, Gary Hinson wrote:

Hi Bruce,

 

Yes some DXCC rules have changed a little over the years but, fundamentally, the award remains as it was originally conceived.  It's a progressive scheme.  The first 100 countries are relatively easy to work, a gentle introduction to hook entrants ... then it gets progressively harder ... until the final assault takes a monumental effort.  That's by design: it's deliberately challenging.  It is meant to get harder.

 

Most of us could manage a leisurely stroll on the foothills of Mount Everest, gazing up in awe at the peaks above.  Some are inspired to make it up as far as base camp.  Few get much beyond that, and very few go all the way to the top at ~29,000 feet.  It wouldn't be such an awesome feat if there was a road to the top, or if the top few thousand feet were levelled, or if 20,000 feet was declared "the top"  by those who can't cope with the lack of oxygen, intense cold and mortal danger ahead.

 

I would love to think I could climb Everest but I know I never will.  That doesn't stop me encouraging, admiring and congratulating those who do.  I'll have to settle for their accounts from the top of the world.

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

 
-- 
Bruce A. Manning


Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

w2ttt
 

Dave AA6YQ,
That's dedication and good timing.  Kudos to them for such an amazing and well-timed achievement! 

At 20 years, I'll stand by my old timer's game comment.  OTC has a 20 year licencing requirement. 
:-)
73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964


From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 2:24:54 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions
 
>snip<

There's no right or wrong here, but beyond 100, the game gets less technical and more of a demonstration of skill over time.  This
is essentially an old-timer's game. 

+ Some DXers have reached the top of the Honor Roll less than 20 years after first being licensed.

       73,

             Dave, AA6YQ







Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Gary Hinson
 

Hi Bruce.

 

Everest is still there, even with your no-climbing signs.   

 

Pretending that EZ or P5 don’t exist simply because there’s no amateur radio there at present is daft.

 

I understand your point, Bruce, but that’s not how DXCC works. 

 

The challenge to work EZ or P5 includes the challenge of convincing the authorities that amateur radio is at worst benign, and in some ways beneficial for them.  Getting operating permission and the correct paperwork from the relevant authorities is part of the battle to reach the summit – just as chartering a ship, braving the roaring forties and scrambling up ice cliffs with the gear and supplies is part of the battle to activate Bouvet, Heard or Peter islands.

 

You seem to believe EZ will never be activated, at least not in your lifetime or mine for that matter.  I’m more optimistic, idly wondering what, if anything, the global amateur community can do to help surmount the obstacles …

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of bmanning
Sent: 02 June 2021 14:11
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

 

Gary

Well said. But what if the government that controls Mount Everest put up a no trespass sign, and stayed there for several generations? The DXCC rules are good as they are. But at least Mount Everest is still available. You and definitely me, are never going to climb it, but it's still open.

73

 Bruce NJ3K 

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Jim Preston N6VH <N6VH@...>

Date: 6/1/21 17:18 (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

 

Gary,

That is an excellent analogy. Well said.

73,

Jim N6VH

On 6/1/2021 12:19 PM, Gary Hinson wrote:

Hi Bruce,

 

Yes some DXCC rules have changed a little over the years but, fundamentally, the award remains as it was originally conceived.  It’s a progressive scheme.  The first 100 countries are relatively easy to work, a gentle introduction to hook entrants … then it gets progressively harder … until the final assault takes a monumental effort.  That’s by design: it’s deliberately challenging.  It is meant to get harder.

 

Most of us could manage a leisurely stroll on the foothills of Mount Everest, gazing up in awe at the peaks above.  Some are inspired to make it up as far as base camp.  Few get much beyond that, and very few go all the way to the top at ~29,000 feet.  It wouldn’t be such an awesome feat if there was a road to the top, or if the top few thousand feet were levelled, or if 20,000 feet was declared “the top”  by those who can’t cope with the lack of oxygen, intense cold and mortal danger ahead.

 

I would love to think I could climb Everest but I know I never will.  That doesn’t stop me encouraging, admiring and congratulating those who do.  I’ll have to settle for their accounts from the top of the world.

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 


Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Dave AA6YQ
 

snip<
There's no right or wrong here, but beyond 100, the game gets less technical and more of a demonstration of skill over time. This
is essentially an old-timer's game.

+ Some DXers have reached the top of the Honor Roll less than 20 years after first being licensed.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

w2ttt
 

Hi Folks!
The geopolitical element of entity availability is somewhat arbitrary, but it is an understood part of thre game.  Personally if I was interested in DXCC, I would pursue a 100 on more bands as that provides a more non-geopolitically-driven challenge especially as you get to 5BDXCC and beyond.  Ask anyone with DXCC on 160m, 6m, 2m or 70cm how hard it was!  Building a station for different bands and LEARNING  the propagation characteristics of each one is a huge challenge that has to be relearned for each band.  It's quite an accomplishment!

Of course the top of the DXCC Honor Roll is like Everest in that two governments DO decide when Everest is closed to climbing.   Climbing all the High Peaks in New York's Adirondack Mountains is more like working grid squares or ITU or CQ Zones, but since some of the High Peaks are on private land, there are times when access is limited. Local politics sometimes do enter into the availability calculus in the game.

There's no right or wrong here, but beyond 100, the game gets less technical and more of a demonstration of skill over time.  This is essentially an old-timer's game.  As long as one's ranking is based on entities that no longer exist (e.g. Czechoslovakia) this will be a "long game".

73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT 
201.314.6964 


From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of bmanning <bmanning@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021 10:11:02 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions
 
Gary
Well said. But what if the government that controls Mount Everest put up a no trespass sign, and stayed there for several generations? The DXCC rules are good as they are. But at least Mount Everest is still available. You and definitely me, are never going to climb it, but it's still open.
73
 Bruce NJ3K 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Preston N6VH <N6VH@...>
Date: 6/1/21 17:18 (GMT-05:00)
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Gary,

That is an excellent analogy. Well said.

73,

Jim N6VH

On 6/1/2021 12:19 PM, Gary Hinson wrote:

Hi Bruce,

 

Yes some DXCC rules have changed a little over the years but, fundamentally, the award remains as it was originally conceived.  It’s a progressive scheme.  The first 100 countries are relatively easy to work, a gentle introduction to hook entrants … then it gets progressively harder … until the final assault takes a monumental effort.  That’s by design: it’s deliberately challenging.  It is meant to get harder.

 

Most of us could manage a leisurely stroll on the foothills of Mount Everest, gazing up in awe at the peaks above.  Some are inspired to make it up as far as base camp.  Few get much beyond that, and very few go all the way to the top at ~29,000 feet.  It wouldn’t be such an awesome feat if there was a road to the top, or if the top few thousand feet were levelled, or if 20,000 feet was declared “the top”  by those who can’t cope with the lack of oxygen, intense cold and mortal danger ahead.

 

I would love to think I could climb Everest but I know I never will.  That doesn’t stop me encouraging, admiring and congratulating those who do.  I’ll have to settle for their accounts from the top of the world.

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB



Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

bmanning
 

Gary
Well said. But what if the government that controls Mount Everest put up a no trespass sign, and stayed there for several generations? The DXCC rules are good as they are. But at least Mount Everest is still available. You and definitely me, are never going to climb it, but it's still open.
73
 Bruce NJ3K 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Preston N6VH <N6VH@...>
Date: 6/1/21 17:18 (GMT-05:00)
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Gary,

That is an excellent analogy. Well said.

73,

Jim N6VH

On 6/1/2021 12:19 PM, Gary Hinson wrote:

Hi Bruce,

 

Yes some DXCC rules have changed a little over the years but, fundamentally, the award remains as it was originally conceived.  It’s a progressive scheme.  The first 100 countries are relatively easy to work, a gentle introduction to hook entrants … then it gets progressively harder … until the final assault takes a monumental effort.  That’s by design: it’s deliberately challenging.  It is meant to get harder.

 

Most of us could manage a leisurely stroll on the foothills of Mount Everest, gazing up in awe at the peaks above.  Some are inspired to make it up as far as base camp.  Few get much beyond that, and very few go all the way to the top at ~29,000 feet.  It wouldn’t be such an awesome feat if there was a road to the top, or if the top few thousand feet were levelled, or if 20,000 feet was declared “the top”  by those who can’t cope with the lack of oxygen, intense cold and mortal danger ahead.

 

I would love to think I could climb Everest but I know I never will.  That doesn’t stop me encouraging, admiring and congratulating those who do.  I’ll have to settle for their accounts from the top of the world.

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB



Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Dave (NK7Z) <dave@...>
 

What?? No participation trophy? I have anxiety!

Actually that is a great analogy, and I am glad it is the way it is! I just got 5BDXCC, and it too me a few years to do so, using a vertical... Now... 9 band is next!

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 6/1/21 2:18 PM, Jim Preston N6VH wrote:
Gary,
That is an excellent analogy. Well said.
73,
Jim N6VH
On 6/1/2021 12:19 PM, Gary Hinson wrote:

Hi Bruce,

Yes some DXCC rules have changed a little over the years but, fundamentally, the award remains as it was originally conceived. *It’s a progressive scheme*.  The first 100 countries are /relatively/ easy to work, a gentle introduction to hook entrants … then it gets progressively harder … until the final assault takes a monumental effort. That’s by design: it’s /deliberately/ challenging.  It is /meant/ to get harder.

Most of us could manage a leisurely stroll on the foothills of Mount Everest, gazing up in awe at the peaks above.  Some are inspired to make it up as far as base camp.  Few get much beyond that, and /very/ few go all the way to the top at ~29,000 feet.  It wouldn’t be such an awesome feat if there was a road to the top, or if the top few thousand feet were levelled, or if 20,000 feet was declared “the top” by those who can’t cope with the lack of oxygen, intense cold and mortal danger ahead.

I would love to think I could climb Everest but I know I never will. That doesn’t stop me encouraging, admiring and congratulating those who do.  I’ll have to settle for their accounts from the top of the world.

73

Gary ZL2iFB


Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

K8TS
 

What Jim said

Dale K8TS

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jim Preston N6VH
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021 5:18 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

 

Gary,

That is an excellent analogy. Well said.

73,

Jim N6VH

On 6/1/2021 12:19 PM, Gary Hinson wrote:

Hi Bruce,

 

Yes some DXCC rules have changed a little over the years but, fundamentally, the award remains as it was originally conceived.  It’s a progressive scheme.  The first 100 countries are relatively easy to work, a gentle introduction to hook entrants … then it gets progressively harder … until the final assault takes a monumental effort.  That’s by design: it’s deliberately challenging.  It is meant to get harder.

 

Most of us could manage a leisurely stroll on the foothills of Mount Everest, gazing up in awe at the peaks above.  Some are inspired to make it up as far as base camp.  Few get much beyond that, and very few go all the way to the top at ~29,000 feet.  It wouldn’t be such an awesome feat if there was a road to the top, or if the top few thousand feet were levelled, or if 20,000 feet was declared “the top”  by those who can’t cope with the lack of oxygen, intense cold and mortal danger ahead.

 

I would love to think I could climb Everest but I know I never will.  That doesn’t stop me encouraging, admiring and congratulating those who do.  I’ll have to settle for their accounts from the top of the world.

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

 


Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Jim Preston N6VH
 

Gary,

That is an excellent analogy. Well said.

73,

Jim N6VH

On 6/1/2021 12:19 PM, Gary Hinson wrote:

Hi Bruce,

 

Yes some DXCC rules have changed a little over the years but, fundamentally, the award remains as it was originally conceived.  It’s a progressive scheme.  The first 100 countries are relatively easy to work, a gentle introduction to hook entrants … then it gets progressively harder … until the final assault takes a monumental effort.  That’s by design: it’s deliberately challenging.  It is meant to get harder.

 

Most of us could manage a leisurely stroll on the foothills of Mount Everest, gazing up in awe at the peaks above.  Some are inspired to make it up as far as base camp.  Few get much beyond that, and very few go all the way to the top at ~29,000 feet.  It wouldn’t be such an awesome feat if there was a road to the top, or if the top few thousand feet were levelled, or if 20,000 feet was declared “the top”  by those who can’t cope with the lack of oxygen, intense cold and mortal danger ahead.

 

I would love to think I could climb Everest but I know I never will.  That doesn’t stop me encouraging, admiring and congratulating those who do.  I’ll have to settle for their accounts from the top of the world.

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB



Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Gary Hinson
 

Hi Bruce,

 

Yes some DXCC rules have changed a little over the years but, fundamentally, the award remains as it was originally conceived.  It’s a progressive scheme.  The first 100 countries are relatively easy to work, a gentle introduction to hook entrants … then it gets progressively harder … until the final assault takes a monumental effort.  That’s by design: it’s deliberately challenging.  It is meant to get harder.

 

Most of us could manage a leisurely stroll on the foothills of Mount Everest, gazing up in awe at the peaks above.  Some are inspired to make it up as far as base camp.  Few get much beyond that, and very few go all the way to the top at ~29,000 feet.  It wouldn’t be such an awesome feat if there was a road to the top, or if the top few thousand feet were levelled, or if 20,000 feet was declared “the top”  by those who can’t cope with the lack of oxygen, intense cold and mortal danger ahead.

 

I would love to think I could climb Everest but I know I never will.  That doesn’t stop me encouraging, admiring and congratulating those who do.  I’ll have to settle for their accounts from the top of the world.

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of bmanning
Sent: 30 May 2021 05:50
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

 

RIA

The point I am trying to make is the list DOES change. So that being said and proven, there is always a possibility of entities being added or removed. 

I would like to think I could work them all. I am sure I have missed some of the 11 I have yet to work in the last 49 years. Sure would be nice to get those 11 active and a few sun spots would help too.

73

 Bruce NJ3K 

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: "Ria, N2RJ" <rjairam@...>

Date: 5/29/21 13:40 (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

 

There are actually reasons to remove an entity if it no longer qualifies as one, either grandfathered under the old rules or under the current rules. Never said there’s no reason to remove an entity, period. 

 

And there’s no need to be upset if you never get to work them all! That’s all part of the game.

 

73

Ria

N2RJ 

 

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 1:23 PM bmanning <bmanning@...> wrote:

Ria

There's no reason to remove an entity.    But some were removed as you stated. The point I am trying to make is the list does in fact change when needed. 

73

 

 Bruce NJ3K

 

On Sat, 29 May 2021 12:59:46 -0400, "Ria, N2RJ" <rjairam@...> wrote:

An entity will remain on the list as long as it satisfies the rules under which it was added or satisfies one of the current rules.

 

KH4 and KH7 were removed because administrative changes by the US government were interpreted as causing them to become one entity and bring close to Hawaii. This was due to President Obama expanding the Papahānaumokuākea Marine National Monument. KH7 was a chain reaction due to its proximity to KH4. Later review reinstated them as the change in administration didn't really affect those entities status, and the deletion was done in error. The reason is that the national monument expansion was actually water only and DXCC only covers land based contacts. 

 

See this article from the Daily DX:

 

KH5 became under administration of USF&WS and joined Palmyra and Jarvis. It did not qualify under the rules under which it was added nor the current rules. So it was deleted. 

 

Kosova was a different story. Kosova declared independence. The DXCC criteria has criteria for adding political entities and they included recognition by and membership in the UN. There was a previous rule that had IARU member society membership as a criteria and recognition by the US State Department. 

 

The problem is that there are a few countries that didn't want to allow Kosova to join the UN. So even though our own government recognized them, and the IARU did, they weren't considered separate by the UN purely for political reasons.

 

So the IARU and US state department rule was reinstated. 

 

TL;DR - these entity deletions and additions were  done to recognize the political realities on the ground that actually defined the boundaries or political status of the entity. They were NOT done to make the award easier to attain or that the entities were simply inactive. 

 

As stated by others, many entities were inactive for decades until something changed. There's no reason to remove an entity. 

 

Ria

N2RJ 

 

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 12:03 PM bmanning <bmanning@...> wrote:

Dave AA6YQ
+ If you'd prefer an award program in which success is assured, either
find one, or start one that satisfies your desires. Please leave DXCC
alone.

April 1, 2017 Midway, KH4 and Kure KH7 were removed from the list, they
were added back a few days later. March 29, 2016 Kingman Island was removed
from the list. January 1, 2018 Kosovo was added. How did these happen?
73
 Bruce NJ3K


On Fri, 28 May 2021 18:20:47 -0400, "Dave AA6YQ" <aa6yq@...>
wrote:
> I too agree with Neil N4FN, on this point. Another one the concerns me
is
> Turkmenistan EZ. Amateur Radio has been banned in that country since
2006.
> So for all the folks that need that entity, I hope we live long enough
to
> see a change in the politics. Why this one is still on the list escapes
me,
> as it is totally unworkable, and been that way for many years.
>
> + In entire history of the DXCC award program, no DXCC entity has ever
> been removed because of unworkability. There has never been a guarantee
> that you can work them all.
>
> + If you'd prefer an award program in which success is assured, either
> find one, or start one that satisfies your desires. Please leave DXCC
> alone.
>
>      73,
>
>                      Dave, AA6YQ
>
>
>
>

--
Bruce A. Manning



-- 
Bruce A. Manning


Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Scott Stembaugh
 

I was trying to swat a bee, not smack a wasps' nest.  :-)
73,
--scott N9LJX


Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Kermit Lehman
 

Wow!  There seem to be bigger issues than just medallions changes.  

73,
Ken, AB1J


-----Original Message-----
From: Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2021 9:41 pm
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

And just to clarify - the notion that young ops are shunning ham radio because DXCC HR#1 is hard to obtain is not accurate at all. 

Many new ops think DXCC stops at 100 mixed, until they’re told otherwise.

73
Ria
N2RJ 

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 5:36 PM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:
You are correct you never said it cannot be changed, but you have repeatedly said leave it alone.

+ I meant "Leave it alone with respect to the removal of DXCC entities that you perceive as inaccessible".

+ I am using "inaccessible" to mean "not currently available for amateur radio contacts - for whatever reason".

My point is it has changed so it is not always left alone. I have never said an entity should be removed because it is inaccessible, although Bouvet 3Y, comes close. Lets say P5 and EZ stay off the air for 50 years, should they still be on the list?

+ Yes, of course.

If so, no one will ever work them all, and those that have will likely be SK's.

+ There are ops who have confirmed P5 and EZ that will likely be alive 50 years from now. P5/4L4FN was QRV in 2002. EZ QSOs were valid for DXCC credit in 2004. Fifty years from now, a DXer who worked P54L4FN or EZ8BO while in their 20s would only be in their 90s - and by then, 90s will be the new 70s.

+ But that's not the point. The DXCC award program has never been optimized for award revenue generation; it's a service provided to the worldwide amateur radio community. The DXCC award program has never claimed that a participant was guaranteed the opportunity to "work them all" or even to achieve Honor Roll.  The fact that DXers pursue DXCC  anyway says something about the character of DXers. We are eternal optimists. DX Is!

           73,

                Dave, AA6YQ







Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Angel Santana WP3GW
 

Guys:

Sorry to bring this up, but as interesting the fact that Amateur Radio can be a complement to study geography, a prefix of a country denotes that it is used on other radio services.

So P5 and EZ may be "prohibited" for sometime but then what about their radio and TV systems.

Hey, it even involves aviation: aircraft in the US start with the letter N, once viewing a Colombian soap opera saw a plane with HK, and maybe the most silliest reference ever, but in a scene of Justice League, and yep, the Zack Snyder Cut, Bruce Wayne is to aboard a helicopter that starts with TF. . . Oh it was in Iceland.

So in a way, DX entities tell us about the telecommunications history and ID of a country.

My 2 cents,

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 4:48 PM, bmanning
<bmanning@...> wrote:
Dave
You are correct you never said it cannot be changed, but you have
repeatedly said leave it alone. My point is it has changed so it is not
always left alone. I have never said an entity should be removed because it
is inaccessible, although Bouvet 3Y, comes close. Lets say P5 and EZ stay
off the air for 50 years, should they still be on the list? If so, no one
will ever work them all, and those that have will likely be SK's. So then
HQ would have no one to sell the plaques and pins too. 
73
Bruce NJ3K

On Sat, 29 May 2021 16:31:21 -0400, "Dave AA6YQ" <aa6yq@...>
wrote:
> + AA6YQ comments below
>
> So there were ch6to DXCC!
>
> + Nowhere in this thread has anyone used "The DXCC entity list cannot be
> changed" as a reason to not remove entities from the list because some
ops
> perceive them as "inaccessible".
>
> + The DXCC entity list can indeed be changed, and has been on multiple
> occasions since the DXCC program began - each time in compliance with
DXCC
> program rules.
>
> + There is no DXCC rule requiring an entity to be perceived as
> "accessible"; thus no DXCC entity can be removed for that reason.
>
>        73,
>
>                  Dave, AA6YQ
>
>
>
>

--
Bruce A. Manning






Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below
Please tell me where I said these were inaccessible?

+ I've already explained how I used the word "inaccessible" - inaccessible for amateur radio contacts that count for DXCC, not just physically inaccessible.

 


Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

bmanning
 

Dave
Please tell me where I said these were inaccessible?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...>
Date: 5/29/21 17:35 (GMT-05:00)
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

You are correct you never said it cannot be changed, but you have repeatedly said leave it alone.

+ I meant "Leave it alone with respect to the removal of DXCC entities that you perceive as inaccessible".

+ I am using "inaccessible" to mean "not currently available for amateur radio contacts - for whatever reason".

My point is it has changed so it is not always left alone. I have never said an entity should be removed because it is inaccessible, although Bouvet 3Y, comes close. Lets say P5 and EZ stay off the air for 50 years, should they still be on the list?

+ Yes, of course.

If so, no one will ever work them all, and those that have will likely be SK's.

+ There are ops who have confirmed P5 and EZ that will likely be alive 50 years from now. P5/4L4FN was QRV in 2002. EZ QSOs were valid for DXCC credit in 2004. Fifty years from now, a DXer who worked P54L4FN or EZ8BO while in their 20s would only be in their 90s - and by then, 90s will be the new 70s.

+ But that's not the point. The DXCC award program has never been optimized for award revenue generation; it's a service provided to the worldwide amateur radio community. The DXCC award program has never claimed that a participant was guaranteed the opportunity to "work them all" or even to achieve Honor Roll.  The fact that DXers pursue DXCC  anyway says something about the character of DXers. We are eternal optimists. DX Is!

           73,

                Dave, AA6YQ







Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Ria, N2RJ
 

And just to clarify - the notion that young ops are shunning ham radio because DXCC HR#1 is hard to obtain is not accurate at all. 

Many new ops think DXCC stops at 100 mixed, until they’re told otherwise.

73
Ria
N2RJ 

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 5:36 PM Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:
You are correct you never said it cannot be changed, but you have repeatedly said leave it alone.

+ I meant "Leave it alone with respect to the removal of DXCC entities that you perceive as inaccessible".

+ I am using "inaccessible" to mean "not currently available for amateur radio contacts - for whatever reason".

My point is it has changed so it is not always left alone. I have never said an entity should be removed because it is inaccessible, although Bouvet 3Y, comes close. Lets say P5 and EZ stay off the air for 50 years, should they still be on the list?

+ Yes, of course.

If so, no one will ever work them all, and those that have will likely be SK's.

+ There are ops who have confirmed P5 and EZ that will likely be alive 50 years from now. P5/4L4FN was QRV in 2002. EZ QSOs were valid for DXCC credit in 2004. Fifty years from now, a DXer who worked P54L4FN or EZ8BO while in their 20s would only be in their 90s - and by then, 90s will be the new 70s.

+ But that's not the point. The DXCC award program has never been optimized for award revenue generation; it's a service provided to the worldwide amateur radio community. The DXCC award program has never claimed that a participant was guaranteed the opportunity to "work them all" or even to achieve Honor Roll.  The fact that DXers pursue DXCC  anyway says something about the character of DXers. We are eternal optimists. DX Is!

           73,

                Dave, AA6YQ







Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

Dave AA6YQ
 

You are correct you never said it cannot be changed, but you have repeatedly said leave it alone.

+ I meant "Leave it alone with respect to the removal of DXCC entities that you perceive as inaccessible".

+ I am using "inaccessible" to mean "not currently available for amateur radio contacts - for whatever reason".

My point is it has changed so it is not always left alone. I have never said an entity should be removed because it is inaccessible, although Bouvet 3Y, comes close. Lets say P5 and EZ stay off the air for 50 years, should they still be on the list?

+ Yes, of course.

If so, no one will ever work them all, and those that have will likely be SK's.

+ There are ops who have confirmed P5 and EZ that will likely be alive 50 years from now. P5/4L4FN was QRV in 2002. EZ QSOs were valid for DXCC credit in 2004. Fifty years from now, a DXer who worked P54L4FN or EZ8BO while in their 20s would only be in their 90s - and by then, 90s will be the new 70s.

+ But that's not the point. The DXCC award program has never been optimized for award revenue generation; it's a service provided to the worldwide amateur radio community. The DXCC award program has never claimed that a participant was guaranteed the opportunity to "work them all" or even to achieve Honor Roll. The fact that DXers pursue DXCC anyway says something about the character of DXers. We are eternal optimists. DX Is!

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Re: 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

bmanning
 

RIA
I didn't say 3Y was inaccessible. I said it comes close.
73
Bruce NJ3K 


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Ria, N2RJ" <rjairam@...>
Date: 5/29/21 16:57 (GMT-05:00)
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] 5B DXCC and WAS Medallions

I worked Bouvet in 2008. It’s certainly not inaccessible. 

Difficult, yes. Inaccessible, not really. 

Ria
N2RJ 

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 4:48 PM bmanning <bmanning@...> wrote:
Dave
You are correct you never said it cannot be changed, but you have
repeatedly said leave it alone. My point is it has changed so it is not
always left alone. I have never said an entity should be removed because it
is inaccessible, although Bouvet 3Y, comes close. Lets say P5 and EZ stay
off the air for 50 years, should they still be on the list? If so, no one
will ever work them all, and those that have will likely be SK's. So then
HQ would have no one to sell the plaques and pins too. 
73
 Bruce NJ3K

On Sat, 29 May 2021 16:31:21 -0400, "Dave AA6YQ" <aa6yq@...>
wrote:
> + AA6YQ comments below
>
> So there were ch6to DXCC!
>
> + Nowhere in this thread has anyone used "The DXCC entity list cannot be
> changed" as a reason to not remove entities from the list because some
ops
> perceive them as "inaccessible".
>
> + The DXCC entity list can indeed be changed, and has been on multiple
> occasions since the DXCC program began - each time in compliance with
DXCC
> program rules.
>
> + There is no DXCC rule requiring an entity to be perceived as
> "accessible"; thus no DXCC entity can be removed for that reason.
>
>         73,
>
>                  Dave, AA6YQ
>
>
>
>

--
Bruce A. Manning





161 - 180 of 1640