A question and an observation…

I have scoured the WSJT-X documentation. Ria mentioned unattended mode. I cannot find a reference to that mode. In fact, the authors specifically did not include that and frown upon any code forks that would add it. What am I missing?

Note I’m not talking about WSPR which is a different  animal. 

For the observation, if you think FT8 is too easy, turn off auto-seq. When I first started using FT8, I did not realize there was an auto-seq mode ( since my prior experience was with JT65 which lacked that option). I was never as busy operating without auto sequencing. So you can easily up the workload and engagement factor with one simple checkbox.

Tom NY4I 

On Sep 24, 2021, at 3:44 PM, Steven Rutledge <steven.t.rutledge@...> wrote:



Ria and Gary, thank you.  Yes, it is all about personal integrity.  When I first got in this game, DXing, many years ago, I would hear some well-known DXers ask others to work a country for them because they were at work, etc.  I never understood this.  I don't see how anyone could get any satisfaction out of an automatic Q or someone else using their call.

Contrary to what some may say, there is SOME skill involved with FT8 depending on what's going on.  :))))))))

73,

Steve, N4JQQ

On 9/24/2021 3:33 PM, Gary Hinson wrote:

Aside from the DXCC rule which is (arguably) ambiguously worded and difficult to prove and so enforce, plus the ethics and possible safety issues, the strongest argument for me is that robotic automation drains the fun out of digi-DXing.  I don’t want to automate myself out of the loop.  I enjoy being an integral and active part of my DXing system.

 

If other ops choose to run full-auto 24x7, that makes it a bit easier for me to contact them when the path is open, although personally I’d prefer to know there is a licensed ham in the shack at the far end monitoring things.

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Ria, N2RJ
Sent: 25 September 2021 07:48
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] ARRL v Robot

 

WSJT-z and MSHV are two that I know of. I know of a few ops who use them in full auto and even unattended mode.

 

Enforcement of the rule? For me it’s about knowing that my plaque on the wall was obtained with honor, I didn’t break any of the rules, didn’t operate illegally etc. I don’t know if the desk has taken action against anyone for fully automatic FT8 (which is absolutely against the rules) but that’s not my primary concern.

 

Ria

N2RJ

 

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 3:37 PM Steven Rutledge <steven.t.rutledge@...> wrote:

I don't think there is anything to worry about.  The ARRL is very busy and I doubt they have time to investigate and prove what you are using for operating software.  I'm curious though?  What "automation" are they speaking of?  I'm not aware of any software that makes automatic QSOs although I guess it could be done.

Steve, N4JQQ

DXAC, Delta

On 9/24/2021 12:18 PM, Kermit Lehman via groups.arrl.org wrote:

This statement was made on the FTDMC Facebook group:

 

 

"Now days if the ARRL finds you are using automation they will strip you of any awards they believe you used it for."

 

 

Is this true?  I know you aren't supposed to claim credit for any QSO involving automation, but that's a far step from taking away an award which was otherwise earned honestly.

 

 

73,

 

Ken, AB1J

 

 

Aside from the DXCC rule which is (arguably) ambiguously worded and difficult to prove and so enforce, plus the ethics and possible safety issues, the strongest argument for me is that robotic automation drains the fun out of digi-DXing.  I don’t want to automate myself out of the loop.  I enjoy being an integral and active part of my DXing system.

 

If other ops choose to run full-auto 24x7, that makes it a bit easier for me to contact them when the path is open, although personally I’d prefer to know there is a licensed ham in the shack at the far end monitoring things.

 

73

Gary  ZL2iFB

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Ria, N2RJ
Sent: 25 September 2021 07:48
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] ARRL v Robot

 

WSJT-z and MSHV are two that I know of. I know of a few ops who use them in full auto and even unattended mode.

 

Enforcement of the rule? For me it’s about knowing that my plaque on the wall was obtained with honor, I didn’t break any of the rules, didn’t operate illegally etc. I don’t know if the desk has taken action against anyone for fully automatic FT8 (which is absolutely against the rules) but that’s not my primary concern.

 

Ria

N2RJ

 

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 3:37 PM Steven Rutledge <steven.t.rutledge@...> wrote:

I don't think there is anything to worry about.  The ARRL is very busy and I doubt they have time to investigate and prove what you are using for operating software.  I'm curious though?  What "automation" are they speaking of?  I'm not aware of any software that makes automatic QSOs although I guess it could be done.

Steve, N4JQQ

DXAC, Delta

On 9/24/2021 12:18 PM, Kermit Lehman via groups.arrl.org wrote:

This statement was made on the FTDMC Facebook group:

 

 

"Now days if the ARRL finds you are using automation they will strip you of any awards they believe you used it for."

 

 

Is this true?  I know you aren't supposed to claim credit for any QSO involving automation, but that's a far step from taking away an award which was otherwise earned honestly.

 

 

73,

 

Ken, AB1J

 

 

This statement was made on the FTDMC Facebook group:

"Now days if the ARRL finds you are using automation they will strip you of any awards they believe you used it for."

Is this true?  I know you aren't supposed to claim credit for any QSO involving automation, but that's a far step from taking away an award which was otherwise earned honestly.

73,

Ken, AB1J

Good morning Val. What do you mean by “altruism”? Steve, NN4T

I’ve played this game for 65 years.

Observation:

What you have and will continue to have is a discussion between those who adhere to altruism and those who are selfish enough to aspire to slide under the rules laid forth by those who constructed awards based upon merit. May the best(most self centered) players win.

“Is there still HONOR within the Honor Roll?”

…Uh, kinda doubt it……

Val

N4RJ

Sent from Mail for Windows

First there is the 50 mile rule. All QSO must be made with in 50 miles. You can get more than one WAS award though. Example someone from New York and has a WAS then moves to Florida and gets a WAS for that QTH. I assume if you have a summer home that is more than 50 miles from your winter home you should be able to make 2 applications. But all QSO's would need to be separate for each QTH.

73

 Bruce NJ3K

On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 15:57:41 -0700, james.troup@... wrote:

When multiple station locations are used by same radio operator,  obtaining the 50 award credits for WAS at each station, how can the WAS certificates be made to reflect each location separately ?   I had tried CallSign State, but that is refused be award manager.

-- 

Bruce A. Manning

 

I've played this game for 65 years.

Observation:

What you have and will continue to have is a discussion between those who adhere to altruism and those who are selfish enough to aspire to slide under the rules laid forth by those who constructed awards based upon merit. May the best(most self centered) players win.

"Is there still HONOR within the Honor Roll?"

...Uh, kinda doubt it......

Val

N4RJ

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: bmanning
Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2021 7:21 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] WAS Awards Certificates from multiple station locations, using same operator's callsign.

 

First there is the 50 mile rule. All QSO must be made with in 50 miles. You can get more than one WAS award though. Example someone from New York and has a WAS then moves to Florida and gets a WAS for that QTH. I assume if you have a summer home that is more than 50 miles from your winter home you should be able to make 2 applications. But all QSO's would need to be separate for each QTH.

73

 Bruce NJ3K

On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 15:57:41 -0700, james.troup@... wrote:

When multiple station locations are used by same radio operator,  obtaining the 50 award credits for WAS at each station, how can the WAS certificates be made to reflect each location separately ?   I had tried CallSign State, but that is refused be award manager.

-- 

Bruce A. Manning

 

 

-- 
Bruce A. Manning

I’ve played this game for 65 years.

Observation:

What you have and will continue to have is a discussion between those who adhere to altruism and those who are selfish enough to aspire to slide under the rules laid forth by those who constructed awards based upon merit. May the best(most self centered) players win.

“Is there still HONOR within the Honor Roll?”

…Uh, kinda doubt it……

Val

N4RJ

Sent from Mail for Windows

First there is the 50 mile rule. All QSO must be made with in 50 miles. You can get more than one WAS award though. Example someone from New York and has a WAS then moves to Florida and gets a WAS for that QTH. I assume if you have a summer home that is more than 50 miles from your winter home you should be able to make 2 applications. But all QSO's would need to be separate for each QTH.

73

 Bruce NJ3K

On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 15:57:41 -0700, james.troup@... wrote:

When multiple station locations are used by same radio operator,  obtaining the 50 award credits for WAS at each station, how can the WAS certificates be made to reflect each location separately ?   I had tried CallSign State, but that is refused be award manager.

-- 

Bruce A. Manning

First there is the 50 mile rule. All QSO must be made with in 50 miles. You can get more than one WAS award though. Example someone from New York and has a WAS then moves to Florida and gets a WAS for that QTH. I assume if you have a summer home that is more than 50 miles from your winter home you should be able to make 2 applications. But all QSO's would need to be separate for each QTH.

73

 Bruce NJ3K

On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 15:57:41 -0700, james.troup@... wrote:

When multiple station locations are used by same radio operator,  obtaining the 50 award credits for WAS at each station, how can the WAS certificates be made to reflect each location separately ?   I had tried CallSign State, but that is refused be award manager.

-- 

Bruce A. Manning

When multiple station locations are used by same radio operator,  obtaining the 50 award credits for WAS at each station, how can the WAS certificates be made to reflect each location separately ?   I had tried CallSign State, but that is refused be award manager.

-- 
Bruce A. Manning

By that test pretty much every contest QSO (in any mode) would be NIL.B

 

 

 

 

From: Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2021 03:53
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Blade Runners

 

+ AA6YQ comments below

 

I can’t conceive of a “robot check” (generally available to “Joe Sixpack” casual operators) which would reveal that my QSO partner was not an attended station.  So I work the station, claim it in an applications for an award (with the appropriate fee payment), and am denied the award.

 

+ Extend the protocol to enable an operator to send a Turing test to his or her QSO partner, and receive the result. Wrong answer => not in log.

 

de AA6YQ

 

 

 

 

 

 

--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™