Date   

Re: Emailed QSLs

Jamie WW3S
 

a lot....several in our local club, use it regularly, one even prints out the nicer "cards", stores them in a binder, and brings them to the monthly meeting ...

------ Original Message ------
From: "W0MU" <w0mu@...>
Sent: 1/18/2022 2:47:40 PM
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

I think you missed the point.  What percentage of people actually use Eqsl? 

On 1/18/2022 11:36 AM, Ria, N2RJ wrote:
CQ allows the use of eQSL for their awards. eQSL has a flat yearly fee of $12.

How much cheaper do you want? 

Ria
N2RJ
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:08 PM W0MU <w0mu@...> wrote:
 I tried unsuccessfully
with CQ to allow emailed confirmations and was shot down.  I was met
with resistance from the old guard that did not want to allow people to
have an easier and less expensive way to get an award.    CQ will allow
hand written cards or sheets of paper if you happen to contact the same
person in many counties which helped.

I think we do need to be open to the changing times.


Re: Emailed QSLs

W0MU
 

I think you missed the point.  What percentage of people actually use Eqsl? 

On 1/18/2022 11:36 AM, Ria, N2RJ wrote:

CQ allows the use of eQSL for their awards. eQSL has a flat yearly fee of $12.

How much cheaper do you want? 

Ria
N2RJ
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:08 PM W0MU <w0mu@...> wrote:
 I tried unsuccessfully
with CQ to allow emailed confirmations and was shot down.  I was met
with resistance from the old guard that did not want to allow people to
have an easier and less expensive way to get an award.    CQ will allow
hand written cards or sheets of paper if you happen to contact the same
person in many counties which helped.

I think we do need to be open to the changing times.


Re: Emailed QSLs

Dave AA6YQ
 

Why would people not use LOTW? I would assume the cost to verify a digitally signed card or use a LOTW contact would be the same price or should be. That is essentially what LOTW is less the card and graphics etc. It is just the data of the contacts required for the awards.

+ Until LoTW is available in more languages and made easier to use, there will be resistance to worldwide adoption. Were development resources available, would rather see them focus on ease-of-use than supporting another mechanism.

I understand wanting to avoid or reduce the costs associated with mailing a card and getting a reply back. LOTW already does this. Do we need another system? I have no issues with DXpeditions making LOTW available immediately to those who donated. Most will upload the complete log after 6 months or more. I think paying outright for a LOTW confirmation is pretty lousy.

+ Adding a donation mechanism to LoTW would help, but doing so is lower priority than improve ease-of-use and eliminating the need for users to be aware of implementation details (like "Callsign Certificates").

CQ Magazines USA-CA requires written confirmation of all 3077 counties. Today the costs for doing this are very high. I tried unsuccessfully with CQ to allow emailed confirmations and was shot down. I was met with resistance from the old guard that did not want to allow people to have an easier and less expensive way to get an award. CQ will allow hand written cards or sheets of paper if you happen to contact the same person in many counties which helped.

+ After negotiating LoTW support for WAZ with CQ in 2017, we agreed that USA-CA support should be the next step. Conversations with CQ's then USA-CA award manager were positive, in part because WAZ support went so smoothly. The re-assignment of all LoTW developers to other projects in early 2018 stopped this initiative cold - along with several others (e.g. IOTA).

I think we do need to be open to the changing times.

LOTW is not an option for USA-CA at the time. The price for using LOTW if USA-CA was ever added to LOTW would probably be quite expensive.

+ CQ would set the price, as they did with WAZ.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Re: Emailed QSLs

Dave AA6YQ
 

Making LoTW easier to use (and manage and maintain) makes more sense, along with better documentation and promotion/incentives to encourage more of these QSL emailers to join the programme. For example, substantially increasing the number and variety of award schemes accepting LoTW confirmations I'm sure would drive up both awareness and use of LoTW.

+ Localizing LoTW's user interface and documentation for additional languages would help.

Although LoTW itself is free to use, I don't think there are any free LoTW-based awards at present. What would it take to add some free 'self-service' entry-level awards, I wonder, generating award PDFs for us to print and frame at our own expense?

+ DXCC awards for the FT-8 and FT-4 modes, for example. The increased sensitivity of these modes has provided first-time HF access to many antenna-limited amateurs, and would serve as an entry point to the ARRL's award families. "Self-service" would keep the costs low for everyone.

+ The web service developed back in 2016 that accepts an ADIF file and generates a report showing which QSOs in that file are confirmed via LoTW (without requiring user credentials) would - if released - enable radio clubs to conduct on-air activities scored by LoTW confirmations. Making access to this API available to local clubs around the world at no charge would likely encourage more ops to participate in LoTW - as the NPOTA, Centennial, and Grid Chase activities all did.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Re: Emailed QSLs

HH Brakob
 

I did the math.  (It ain’t cheap either way)

 

At $0.12 per credit, 3077 USA-CA LoTW confirmations would cost $369.24. 

 

Presuming $1.25 (card and two way postage) the same confirmations by use of cards  would cost $3,746.25.

 

That’s a 10dB increase in cost for paper over LoTW.

 

73, de Hans, KØHB

“Just a Boy and his Radio”™

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: W0MU <w0mu@...>
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Sent: Tue, Jan 18, 2022 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs



LOTW is not an option for USA-CA at the time.  The price for using LOTW
if USA-CA was ever added to LOTW would probably be quite expensive.

W0MU


 


Re: Emailed QSLs

Ria, N2RJ
 

CQ allows the use of eQSL for their awards. eQSL has a flat yearly fee of $12.

How much cheaper do you want? 

Ria
N2RJ

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:08 PM W0MU <w0mu@...> wrote:
 I tried unsuccessfully
with CQ to allow emailed confirmations and was shot down.  I was met
with resistance from the old guard that did not want to allow people to
have an easier and less expensive way to get an award.    CQ will allow
hand written cards or sheets of paper if you happen to contact the same
person in many counties which helped.

I think we do need to be open to the changing times.


Re: Emailed QSLs

W0MU
 

You can.  You have to convince people to use it and many won't. 

There has not been a new USA-CA award since 2019.  Crazy!

W0MU

On 1/18/2022 11:22 AM, Kermit Lehman via groups.arrl.org wrote:

You can use eQSL for USA-CA. It's not convenient for the counter hunter mobiles, so they don't use it much. 


I've gotten 1500+ confirmed in eQSL just from regular QSOs. I don't have the drive to go for the whole award and all the written confirmations to get the rest of the way.


73,

Ken, AB1J


-----Original Message-----
From: W0MU <w0mu@...>
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Sent: Tue, Jan 18, 2022 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

Why would people not use LOTW?  I would assume the cost to verify a
digitally signed card or use a LOTW contact would be the same price or
should be.  That is essentially what LOTW is less the card and graphics
etc.  It is just the data of the contacts required for the awards.

I understand wanting to avoid or reduce the costs associated with
mailing a card and getting a reply back.  LOTW already does this. Do we
need another system?  I have no issues with DXpeditions making LOTW
available immediately to those who donated.  Most will upload the
complete log after 6 months or more.  I think paying outright for a LOTW
confirmation is pretty lousy.

CQ Magazines USA-CA requires written confirmation of all 3077 counties. 
Today the costs for doing this are very high.  I tried unsuccessfully
with CQ to allow emailed confirmations and was shot down.  I was met
with resistance from the old guard that did not want to allow people to
have an easier and less expensive way to get an award.    CQ will allow
hand written cards or sheets of paper if you happen to contact the same
person in many counties which helped.

I think we do need to be open to the changing times.

LOTW is not an option for USA-CA at the time.  The price for using LOTW
if USA-CA was ever added to LOTW would probably be quite expensive.

W0MU

On 1/18/2022 10:38 AM, Gilbert Baron wrote:
> On the other hand, with the likely low usage this would have and the significant development effort it would take, I doubt this will happen.
>
> Outlook LT Gil W0MN
> Hierro Candente Batir de Repente
> 44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:19 AM
> To: ARRL-Awards@...
> Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
>
> None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures.
>
> But if they did, I would support them being accepted.
>
> + An email message digitally-signed with the sender's LOTW "Callsign Certificate" would provide authentication identical to what TQSL now provides. ARRL staff would need a means of validating the authentication.
>
> de AA6YQ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Emailed QSLs

Kermit Lehman
 

You can use eQSL for USA-CA. It's not convenient for the counter hunter mobiles, so they don't use it much. 


I've gotten 1500+ confirmed in eQSL just from regular QSOs. I don't have the drive to go for the whole award and all the written confirmations to get the rest of the way.


73,

Ken, AB1J


-----Original Message-----
From: W0MU <w0mu@...>
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Sent: Tue, Jan 18, 2022 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

Why would people not use LOTW?  I would assume the cost to verify a
digitally signed card or use a LOTW contact would be the same price or
should be.  That is essentially what LOTW is less the card and graphics
etc.  It is just the data of the contacts required for the awards.

I understand wanting to avoid or reduce the costs associated with
mailing a card and getting a reply back.  LOTW already does this. Do we
need another system?  I have no issues with DXpeditions making LOTW
available immediately to those who donated.  Most will upload the
complete log after 6 months or more.  I think paying outright for a LOTW
confirmation is pretty lousy.

CQ Magazines USA-CA requires written confirmation of all 3077 counties. 
Today the costs for doing this are very high.  I tried unsuccessfully
with CQ to allow emailed confirmations and was shot down.  I was met
with resistance from the old guard that did not want to allow people to
have an easier and less expensive way to get an award.    CQ will allow
hand written cards or sheets of paper if you happen to contact the same
person in many counties which helped.

I think we do need to be open to the changing times.

LOTW is not an option for USA-CA at the time.  The price for using LOTW
if USA-CA was ever added to LOTW would probably be quite expensive.

W0MU

On 1/18/2022 10:38 AM, Gilbert Baron wrote:
> On the other hand, with the likely low usage this would have and the significant development effort it would take, I doubt this will happen.
>
> Outlook LT Gil W0MN
> Hierro Candente Batir de Repente
> 44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:19 AM
> To: ARRL-Awards@...
> Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs
>
> None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures.
>
> But if they did, I would support them being accepted.
>
> + An email message digitally-signed with the sender's LOTW "Callsign Certificate" would provide authentication identical to what TQSL now provides. ARRL staff would need a means of validating the authentication.
>
> de AA6YQ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Emailed QSLs

Hans Brakob
 

One is reminded of the admonition from Cat’s Cradle

 

“Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before," Bokonon tells us. "He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way.”

 

 

From: W0MU
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 18:08
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

I tried unsuccessfully with CQ to allow emailed confirmations and was shot down.  I was met with resistance from the old guard that did not want to allow people to have an easier and less expensive way to get an award.   

 

 

 

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™


Re: Emailed QSLs

W0MU
 

Why would people not use LOTW?  I would assume the cost to verify a digitally signed card or use a LOTW contact would be the same price or should be.  That is essentially what LOTW is less the card and graphics etc.  It is just the data of the contacts required for the awards.

I understand wanting to avoid or reduce the costs associated with mailing a card and getting a reply back.  LOTW already does this. Do we need another system?  I have no issues with DXpeditions making LOTW available immediately to those who donated.  Most will upload the complete log after 6 months or more.  I think paying outright for a LOTW confirmation is pretty lousy.

CQ Magazines USA-CA requires written confirmation of all 3077 counties.  Today the costs for doing this are very high.  I tried unsuccessfully with CQ to allow emailed confirmations and was shot down.  I was met with resistance from the old guard that did not want to allow people to have an easier and less expensive way to get an award.    CQ will allow hand written cards or sheets of paper if you happen to contact the same person in many counties which helped.

I think we do need to be open to the changing times.

LOTW is not an option for USA-CA at the time.  The price for using LOTW if USA-CA was ever added to LOTW would probably be quite expensive.

W0MU

On 1/18/2022 10:38 AM, Gilbert Baron wrote:
On the other hand, with the likely low usage this would have and the significant development effort it would take, I doubt this will happen.

Outlook LT Gil W0MN
Hierro Candente Batir de Repente
44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb


-----Original Message-----
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:19 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures.

But if they did, I would support them being accepted.

+ An email message digitally-signed with the sender's LOTW "Callsign Certificate" would provide authentication identical to what TQSL now provides. ARRL staff would need a means of validating the authentication.

de AA6YQ












Re: Emailed QSLs

Gary Hinson <Gary@...>
 

It's not just that: ARRL already has LoTW. Why would it even consider another, different, parallel, PKI approach unless there are significant advantages to more than offset the costs (including opportunity costs i.e. diverting the already stretched resources)?

Making LoTW easier to use (and manage and maintain) makes more sense, along with better documentation and promotion/incentives to encourage more of these QSL emailers to join the programme. For example, substantially increasing the number and variety of award schemes accepting LoTW confirmations I'm sure would drive up both awareness and use of LoTW.

Although LoTW itself is free to use, I don't think there are any free LoTW-based awards at present. What would it take to add some free 'self-service' entry-level awards, I wonder, generating award PDFs for us to print and frame at our own expense?

73
Gary ZL2iFB

-----Original Message-----
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Gilbert Baron
Sent: Wednesday, 19 January 2022 6:39 am
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

On the other hand, with the likely low usage this would have and the significant development effort it would take, I doubt this will happen.

Outlook LT Gil W0MN
Hierro Candente Batir de Repente
44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb


-----Original Message-----
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:19 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures.

But if they did, I would support them being accepted.

+ An email message digitally-signed with the sender's LOTW "Callsign Certificate" would provide authentication identical to what TQSL now provides. ARRL staff would need a means of validating the authentication.

de AA6YQ


Re: Emailed QSLs

Gilbert Baron
 

On the other hand, with the likely low usage this would have and the significant development effort it would take, I doubt this will happen.

Outlook LT Gil W0MN
Hierro Candente Batir de Repente
44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb

-----Original Message-----
From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:19 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures.

But if they did, I would support them being accepted.

+ An email message digitally-signed with the sender's LOTW "Callsign Certificate" would provide authentication identical to what TQSL now provides. ARRL staff would need a means of validating the authentication.

de AA6YQ


Re: Emailed QSLs

K8TS
 

Throwing a donation to a planned expedition ahead of time does not bother me in the least.  Their expenses are upfront, not after the expedition. If the expedition does not materialize, or is disabled for some reason, they may keep the donation, they still had the expenses. I also have no reservations putting in a couple green stamps to a rare or semi-rare operation.

 

That being said, I will not pay for a LoTW confirmation. It does not cost a dime to confirm via LoTW except if they still use dial-up or are forced to use an internet café.

 

I will not support the lavish lifestyle of “stamp collectors” from common entities. They need to get a day job.

Dale K8TS

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Ria, N2RJ
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:01 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

Some are now charging for LOTW confirmations. It’s not about postage anymore.

 

That said if you want to play then you have to pay. No real way around it. 

 

I have donated to DXpeditions including failed ones that never happened. In one or two cases I let them keep the money and put toward other DXpeditions or donate to NCDXF or similar. 

 

For contacts to places that are not rare I don’t pay for a card. No need. 

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:50 AM Russ Kinner <wizardofzid@...> wrote:

It's not as prevalent as it use to be but you are correct on getting a few $ for a card. I agree that if YOU want a card, paying for postage is reasonable but with all the on line options for confirming a contact, that really isn't needed any more. 

Putting some money to a DX venture seems reasonable to me. I do like the trend of posting all contacts 6 months after a rare one so those who helped out get quick confirmations and those who didn't (for whatever reason) eventually do get something. Actually, 6 months is what I expected early in my career as we only had cards and most went thru a bureau. 

Personally, I'll eventually will get DXCC and probably 90% will be by LotW. Some will not use it and that is their choice. Now, I have a packet of cards to send to my local checker so off to the post office.

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 08:24 Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...> wrote:

None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures. 

 

But if they did, I would support them being accepted.

 

The other side of this is that some hams want to give you a reason to send them $3 USD or more even if it’s by PayPal. So I don’t think direct paper cards will ever go away. 

 

Ria

N2RJ

 

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 5:39 PM Gilbert Baron <w0mn00@...> wrote:

Emailed cards with digital signatures should be accepted. They are not but they should be. Many MUCH more important legal papers are. I am not holding my breath here though.

 

Outlook LT Gil W0MN

Hierro Candente Batir de Repente

44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb

 

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Andy Jezioro
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 10:57 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations.  I also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations.  Not everyone uses wither so paper still works for me.  In fact not everyone has paper cards these days.  To improve my confirmations responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ.  I've attached a sample.  Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail.  If that's the case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in the SASE.  That has greatly improved my returns.



I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be counted for an award.  I'll follow up as noted above and try to get a QSL that will work for me.

Andy
WA2ONG

On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:

OMG !!!

This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)

The original question was.....


Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. 
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL? 
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? 
If not, then why? 
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. 
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 
End Quote

He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working,  that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......

By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.

To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?

My reply is simply.......

Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.

Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW)

wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.

I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.

I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others

Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.

Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK

 

 


Re: Emailed QSLs

Dave AA6YQ
 

None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures.

But if they did, I would support them being accepted.

+ An email message digitally-signed with the sender's LOTW "Callsign Certificate" would provide authentication identical to what TQSL now provides. ARRL staff would need a means of validating the authentication.

de AA6YQ


Re: Emailed QSLs

Ria, N2RJ
 

Some are now charging for LOTW confirmations. It’s not about postage anymore.

That said if you want to play then you have to pay. No real way around it. 

I have donated to DXpeditions including failed ones that never happened. In one or two cases I let them keep the money and put toward other DXpeditions or donate to NCDXF or similar. 

For contacts to places that are not rare I don’t pay for a card. No need. 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:50 AM Russ Kinner <wizardofzid@...> wrote:
It's not as prevalent as it use to be but you are correct on getting a few $ for a card. I agree that if YOU want a card, paying for postage is reasonable but with all the on line options for confirming a contact, that really isn't needed any more. 
Putting some money to a DX venture seems reasonable to me. I do like the trend of posting all contacts 6 months after a rare one so those who helped out get quick confirmations and those who didn't (for whatever reason) eventually do get something. Actually, 6 months is what I expected early in my career as we only had cards and most went thru a bureau. 
Personally, I'll eventually will get DXCC and probably 90% will be by LotW. Some will not use it and that is their choice. Now, I have a packet of cards to send to my local checker so off to the post office.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 08:24 Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...> wrote:
None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures. 

But if they did, I would support them being accepted.

The other side of this is that some hams want to give you a reason to send them $3 USD or more even if it’s by PayPal. So I don’t think direct paper cards will ever go away. 

Ria
N2RJ

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 5:39 PM Gilbert Baron <w0mn00@...> wrote:

Emailed cards with digital signatures should be accepted. They are not but they should be. Many MUCH more important legal papers are. I am not holding my breath here though.

 

Outlook LT Gil W0MN

Hierro Candente Batir de Repente

44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb

 

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Andy Jezioro
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 10:57 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations.  I also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations.  Not everyone uses wither so paper still works for me.  In fact not everyone has paper cards these days.  To improve my confirmations responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ.  I've attached a sample.  Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail.  If that's the case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in the SASE.  That has greatly improved my returns.



I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be counted for an award.  I'll follow up as noted above and try to get a QSL that will work for me.

Andy
WA2ONG

On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:

OMG !!!

This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)

The original question was.....


Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. 
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL? 
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? 
If not, then why? 
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. 
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 
End Quote

He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working,  that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......

By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.

To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?

My reply is simply.......

Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.

Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW)

wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.

I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.

I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others

Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.

Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK

 


Re: Emailed QSLs

Russ Kinner
 

It's not as prevalent as it use to be but you are correct on getting a few $ for a card. I agree that if YOU want a card, paying for postage is reasonable but with all the on line options for confirming a contact, that really isn't needed any more. 
Putting some money to a DX venture seems reasonable to me. I do like the trend of posting all contacts 6 months after a rare one so those who helped out get quick confirmations and those who didn't (for whatever reason) eventually do get something. Actually, 6 months is what I expected early in my career as we only had cards and most went thru a bureau. 
Personally, I'll eventually will get DXCC and probably 90% will be by LotW. Some will not use it and that is their choice. Now, I have a packet of cards to send to my local checker so off to the post office.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 08:24 Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...> wrote:
None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures. 

But if they did, I would support them being accepted.

The other side of this is that some hams want to give you a reason to send them $3 USD or more even if it’s by PayPal. So I don’t think direct paper cards will ever go away. 

Ria
N2RJ

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 5:39 PM Gilbert Baron <w0mn00@...> wrote:

Emailed cards with digital signatures should be accepted. They are not but they should be. Many MUCH more important legal papers are. I am not holding my breath here though.

 

Outlook LT Gil W0MN

Hierro Candente Batir de Repente

44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb

 

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Andy Jezioro
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 10:57 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations.  I also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations.  Not everyone uses wither so paper still works for me.  In fact not everyone has paper cards these days.  To improve my confirmations responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ.  I've attached a sample.  Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail.  If that's the case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in the SASE.  That has greatly improved my returns.



I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be counted for an award.  I'll follow up as noted above and try to get a QSL that will work for me.

Andy
WA2ONG

On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:

OMG !!!

This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)

The original question was.....


Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. 
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL? 
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? 
If not, then why? 
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. 
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 
End Quote

He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working,  that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......

By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.

To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?

My reply is simply.......

Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.

Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW)

wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.

I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.

I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others

Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.

Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK

 


Re: Emailed QSLs

K8TS
 

Pete;

I have not followed this thread very closely, so this may have already been said.

If all he wants is an inexpensive piece of paper, use eQSL, it is free, if you are not working for awards.

I used to upload my logs to them for those that use that system for awards (they have their own award program).

At this time I refuse to do so anymore because of all the bogus ones. I do seek ARRL awards, but eQSL is not a counter.

 

I treasure QSL cards, many of them tell a story that even the layman can understand. I have run out of wall space but the story ones stay on  the wall.

 

It appears all he wants is a cheap qsl at your expense, not his or he would have sent you a card. I will admit that in some poorer countries

                the cost of a qsl my be prohitive, but if he owns a computer, that should not be an issue.

 

I do honor all swl cards if they send a card. In many countries, a swl has to spend a period of time prior to obtaining a ham license.

Dale K8TS

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Pete W1RM
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 9:29 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

I appreciate all the comments.  It gives me pause as to how to proceed when I receive a qsl via email.  There is software available to generate a paper qsl from a log or adi file. 

 

I don’t wish to be impolite to someone sending me a qsl via email but at the same time I want to follow the appropriate rules.  Connecticut is not rare, although there seems to be some interest in working us for the FT crowd and I did get an email from a station in DU who had heard me on 20 and needed CT.  We set several skeds and finally managed a QSO.  He was only running 100 w to a simple loop so working him was a bit of a feat.

 

I think I will create a special (unique) QSL for the email reply and put on it, not valid for any award.  This way, I can be polite and yet not tempt the recipient to use it.  I am more than happy to reply to any paper QSL and I routinely load all logs to LoTW.

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Ria, N2RJ
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:51 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

There is no specific requirement to sign QSL cards.

 

Card checkers do examine cards for physical signs of forgery or non-adherence to the rules. The handwritten signature puts something on the card that can’t be duplicated via e-mail, or eQSL. 

 

With that said, I’m sure people have printed out emailed QSLs and eQSLs and used them for award submissions successfully. However, a card for a contact with Italy or Germany on 20 meters would be scrutinized a lot less than one for North Korea on 160, to use two extreme examples. My 160m cards have always had more scrutiny on them with the card checker noting the time of the contact on the DXCC forms. 

 

Cards get rejected for all sorts of reasons including scratching off the contact info and replacing it with something else. In that case the card checker will ask you to forward the card to the awards desk for further verification.

 

Ria

N2RJ

 

 

 

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:05 PM w2ttt <w2ttt@...> wrote:

Ria,

Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?

I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope.  Are they not valid?

If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card? 

73,

Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

201.314.6964

 

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:57:52 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail. 

 

This way it becomes a regular QSL card…

 

Otherwise no go. 

 

73

Ria

N2RJ

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote:

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 

 


Re: Emailed QSLs

Ria, N2RJ
 

None of the emailed cards I’ve received have had digital signatures. 

But if they did, I would support them being accepted.

The other side of this is that some hams want to give you a reason to send them $3 USD or more even if it’s by PayPal. So I don’t think direct paper cards will ever go away. 

Ria
N2RJ

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 5:39 PM Gilbert Baron <w0mn00@...> wrote:

Emailed cards with digital signatures should be accepted. They are not but they should be. Many MUCH more important legal papers are. I am not holding my breath here though.

 

Outlook LT Gil W0MN

Hierro Candente Batir de Repente

44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb

 

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Andy Jezioro
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 10:57 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations.  I also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations.  Not everyone uses wither so paper still works for me.  In fact not everyone has paper cards these days.  To improve my confirmations responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ.  I've attached a sample.  Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail.  If that's the case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in the SASE.  That has greatly improved my returns.



I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be counted for an award.  I'll follow up as noted above and try to get a QSL that will work for me.

Andy
WA2ONG

On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:

OMG !!!

This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)

The original question was.....


Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. 
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL? 
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? 
If not, then why? 
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. 
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 
End Quote

He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working,  that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......

By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.

To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?

My reply is simply.......

Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.

Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW)

wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.

I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.

I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others

Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.

Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK

 


Re: Emailed QSLs

Pete W1RM <w1rm@...>
 

I appreciate all the comments.  It gives me pause as to how to proceed when I receive a qsl via email.  There is software available to generate a paper qsl from a log or adi file. 

 

I don’t wish to be impolite to someone sending me a qsl via email but at the same time I want to follow the appropriate rules.  Connecticut is not rare, although there seems to be some interest in working us for the FT crowd and I did get an email from a station in DU who had heard me on 20 and needed CT.  We set several skeds and finally managed a QSO.  He was only running 100 w to a simple loop so working him was a bit of a feat.

 

I think I will create a special (unique) QSL for the email reply and put on it, not valid for any award.  This way, I can be polite and yet not tempt the recipient to use it.  I am more than happy to reply to any paper QSL and I routinely load all logs to LoTW.

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Ria, N2RJ
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:51 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

There is no specific requirement to sign QSL cards.

 

Card checkers do examine cards for physical signs of forgery or non-adherence to the rules. The handwritten signature puts something on the card that can’t be duplicated via e-mail, or eQSL. 

 

With that said, I’m sure people have printed out emailed QSLs and eQSLs and used them for award submissions successfully. However, a card for a contact with Italy or Germany on 20 meters would be scrutinized a lot less than one for North Korea on 160, to use two extreme examples. My 160m cards have always had more scrutiny on them with the card checker noting the time of the contact on the DXCC forms. 

 

Cards get rejected for all sorts of reasons including scratching off the contact info and replacing it with something else. In that case the card checker will ask you to forward the card to the awards desk for further verification.

 

Ria

N2RJ

 

 

 

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:05 PM w2ttt <w2ttt@...> wrote:

Ria,

Does this mean that mailed cards need to be signed?

I have received printed QSL cards in an envelope.  Are they not valid?

If they are valid, or have been valid in the past, then how are they substantively different than an emailed card? 

73,

Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

201.314.6964

 

 


From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:57:52 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

There is one route for them to be valid for ARRL awards. Print out the card, send it to the person who sent it and let them sign it and return it to you by postal mail. 

 

This way it becomes a regular QSL card…

 

Otherwise no go. 

 

73

Ria

N2RJ

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:10 PM Pete W1RM <w1rm@...> wrote:

I may have posed this question before, but I’ll ask again.

 

I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply.  The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL?  If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count?  If not, then why?  Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

 

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO.  Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 

 

 

Pete Chamalian, W1RM

W1RM@...

 


Re: Emailed QSLs

W0MU
 

I agree. 

There will be many more of these email qsls.  I have received a couple and I have been fairly inactive.  It seems to be a newer service that also sends out buro cards. 

Personally I have stopped with Buro cards.  I will LOTW and direct with SASE and postage. 

I have mixed feelings as I do fondly remember as a young ham, waiting to get off the school bus to run to the mailbox and see if I got any cards that day.   It took a long time for that fondness to lessen.  Paying for DX cards or LOTW has also changed the playing field. 

W0MU


On 1/17/2022 3:39 PM, Gilbert Baron wrote:

Emailed cards with digital signatures should be accepted. They are not but they should be. Many MUCH more important legal papers are. I am not holding my breath here though.

 

Outlook LT Gil W0MN

Hierro Candente Batir de Repente

44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb

 

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Andy Jezioro
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 10:57 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Emailed QSLs

 

I actively work towards ARRL awards and value LoTW confirmations.  I also am a county hunter and value eQSL confirmations.  Not everyone uses wither so paper still works for me.  In fact not everyone has paper cards these days.  To improve my confirmations responses, I'll include a county hunter card along with a SASE if I don't see any QSL info in QRZ.  I've attached a sample.  Often a ham will say they do not QSL via mail.  If that's the case I'll send them an email if shown on QRZ asking them if they would fill out the county hunter card and return it in the SASE.  That has greatly improved my returns.

I'll be glad to get an emailed card even though I know it can't be counted for an award.  I'll follow up as noted above and try to get a QSL that will work for me.

Andy
WA2ONG

On 1/17/2022 10:49 AM, Steven Lott Smith KG5VK ARRL NTX SM wrote:

OMG !!!

This thread amazes me, although some what enjoyable at times
did we really answer the question, I will take a stab at it and probably fall far from the bullseye :)

The original question was.....


Quote......
I have received several QSLs via email with a request for a reply. 
The sender also says they are putting the QSO on LoTW and sending a QSL via the bureau.

 

Is there any value to an emailed QSL? 
If the QSL were printed and submitted for an award, would it count? 
If not, then why? 
Is there a difference between a printed QSL and a printed QSL that’s on a card?

The face of ham radio is changing and so are the approaches to confirming a QSO. 
Now LoTW has it’s level of security but a paper QSL? 
End Quote

He got all kinds of answers some implying North Korea is not even worth working,  that one blew me away
But it goes to the heart of my point......

By the way....
For that replier he has little interest apparently in being Number one of the DXCC Honor Roll and is focused on working Grid Squares
That is fantastic and is a major part of our hobby in that not everyone loves CW, or Slow Scan TV etc
But there are folks that do, I respect what others enjoy doing and do not wise to piss on anyone's style of enjoying our great hobby.

To the heart of the original poster's question
Is a paper QSL worth anything, or even an emailed version?

My reply is simply.......

Yes, it is worth something to the person that requested it, and is that not in the sprit of the QSL in the first place.

Maybe you need their QSL, then wait and see if they did as promised (He did indicate that they said they would upload to LOTW)

wait a week and check, if you need that confirmation
then if it is there send the reply by email with you info
If not then kindly send them an email request to do as promised and you will oblige their request
However, I would lean towards sending the "emailed" QSL and I am sure they will oblige to follow through on their end.
After all, is there zero trust now in our fellow Ham OPS, don't answer I already know gone are the days of accepting a check with just a callsign on it.
But gee over a QSL, have some faith.

I have seen QSL info on chucks of Wood, Napkins, Post -It Notes, Chamber of Commerce Post Cards etc.
Those chunks of Wood and even a couple of those Napkins are very valuable to some of those recipients.

I personally use LOTW, period, however when I receive an email request to upload contact info to eQSL I will do so, promptly
eQSL's are NOT valid for ARRL Awards, but they are of value to others

Just my point of view and I meant no inflection of Dis to anyone.

Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK

 

221 - 240 of 2041