Date   

Re: Scarborough Reef

W0MU
 

Are they rising?  Predictions had most of the coastal areas under 30 ft of water by now.

On 10/29/2020 10:47 AM, Steven R Daniel, D.D.S. wrote:

I suspect with rising ocean levels it will be completely under water at all times soon enough.

That should take care of that! Steve, NN4T

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... [mailto:ARRL-Awards@...] On Behalf Of John Harden, D.M.D.
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 9:54 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: [ARRL-Awards] Scarborough Reef

 


--
BS7, Scarborough Reef, IS NOT a real country. It should be deleted.



Re: Scarborough Reef

Steven R Daniel, D.D.S.
 

I suspect with rising ocean levels it will be completely under water at all times soon enough.

That should take care of that! Steve, NN4T

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... [mailto:ARRL-Awards@...] On Behalf Of John Harden, D.M.D.
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 9:54 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: [ARRL-Awards] Scarborough Reef

 


--
BS7, Scarborough Reef, IS NOT a real country. It should be deleted.


Re: Scarborough Reef

W0MU
 

I think the definition needs to be changed to not allow a small pile of rocks sticking up out of the water where you have to build scaffolding just to get on them to something that requires X amount of land area etc. 

Scaffold rocks aks BS rocks was a political thing. 

Every entity named below has significant land mass.  I am not sure you could even find BS rocks on a satellite image without a microscope.

W0MU

On 10/29/2020 9:01 AM, H Hans Brakob wrote:


Many DXCC entities are not “real countries”.  

Bouvet isn’t a real country, Alaska isn’t a real country, Jan Mayen isn’t a real country, Desecheo isn’t a real country.....  and so on.



From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of John Harden, D.M.D. <Jhdmd@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 9:54:12 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: [ARRL-Awards] Scarborough Reef
 

--
BS7, Scarborough Reef, IS NOT a real country. It should be deleted.

--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™


Re: Scarborough Reef

Hans Brakob
 


Many DXCC entities are not “real countries”.  

Bouvet isn’t a real country, Alaska isn’t a real country, Jan Mayen isn’t a real country, Desecheo isn’t a real country.....  and so on.



From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of John Harden, D.M.D. <Jhdmd@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 9:54:12 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: [ARRL-Awards] Scarborough Reef
 

--
BS7, Scarborough Reef, IS NOT a real country. It should be deleted.

--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™


Scarborough Reef

John Harden, D.M.D. <Jhdmd@...>
 


--
BS7, Scarborough Reef, IS NOT a real country. It should be deleted.


Re: First Contact certificate

Gary Hinson <Gary@...>
 

Oh, yes, nice!  Thanks for that Ken.

 

I wondered if this was just a ‘universal medal’ – a certificate for “trying hard” or “giving it a go” or whatever – but no, your certificate reminded me of my very first very shaky QSO in 1979, and the equally shaky one shortly after when the actual license came through (!).

 

I would love to be more active in the various slow speed CW activity periods, in the hope of being someone’s first QSO, first DX or first ZL.   Likewise in the Field Days, which are often new hams’ first contest experiences.  If the guy at the far end is slow, nervous and hesitant, perhaps struggling a bit with the protocols, it takes me right back to 1979.

 

73

Gary   ZL2iFB

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> On Behalf Of Kermit Lehman via groups.arrl.org
Sent: 07 October 2020 03:09
To: arrl-awards@...
Subject: [ARRL-Awards] First Contact certificate

 

Hi,

 

A month or so ago there was a discussion of various existing and proposed awards.  Someone mentioned a First Contact Award available from the ARRL.  I decided my wife would like to get me one and it came in the mail yesterday.  She was more surprised than I was.  Nice gift.

 

I was a very shaky novice Novice back then.  I could barely send CW with my J-38 key because my hand trembled so much.

 

73,

Ken, AB1J

 

 

1958-02-09 First QSO.JPG

 


First Contact certificate

Kermit Lehman
 

Hi,

A month or so ago there was a discussion of various existing and proposed awards.  Someone mentioned a First Contact Award available from the ARRL.  I decided my wife would like to get me one and it came in the mail yesterday.  She was more surprised than I was.  Nice gift.

I was a very shaky novice Novice back then.  I could barely send CW with my J-38 key because my hand trembled so much.

73,
Ken, AB1J


1958-02-09 First QSO.JPG


Re: Reefs?

Skip
 

"Sea level" is sort of "sea level" world-wide.  The Pacific is about 40 cm higher than the Atlantic [and the north of both is a few cm higher than the south of both], so covering a coral rock that was about a meter or so above low tide would require a significant sea level rise to cover it.  Whether or not Rock #3 at BS7H should be a deleted entity I leave to more educated DXCC folk.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/23/2020 4:02 PM, Hugh Valentine wrote:

Water can simply rise, or the constant wave action with little substrate will wash it away…

 

Val

 

N4RJ

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Skip
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 3:55 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Reefs?

 

I wasn't asking if it should or should not have been allowed ... I just wondered if it was now submerged below low tide or not.  From the photo I have, if it is underwater at low tide now, the sea level has risen way more than the data that have been recently published.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/23/2020 11:37 AM, W0MU wrote:

It Should never have been allowed.  There needs to be a land mass area criteria added.  BS7 was all BS politics.

W0MU

On 9/23/2020 12:01 PM, Skip wrote:

Does anyone actually know that the rock that held the scaffold in the photo I have of W6RGG working the world at BS7H ["Rock #3?"] is *really* underwater now?  It looks like it's maybe a meter above the water in the photo.  Tides aren't large in the S. China Sea and I didn't think the MSL rise since then has been that much.  I tried Google Earth but there are so many reefs and very shallow spots in that region, I couldn't tell, and of course GE may be an old photo.  Just curious.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/22/2020 5:03 PM, Tony KX1G wrote:

My concern with BS7 is the possibility it may never be on their air again if it remains underwater. 

Guess I will have to wait and see.

Makes me wonder if I can will my contacts to a relative who can work bs7 and add it to my total posthumously. 


73



Re: Reefs?

Skip
 

Layang-Layang or Malaysia's claim?

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/24/2020 12:52 PM, Zack Widup wrote:

Most of the more recent operations from Spratley Islands has taken place from Layang-Layang, which I believe is claimed by Malaysia. I don't know how long that will last.

73, Zack W9SZ



Re: Reefs?

Zack Widup
 

Most of the more recent operations from Spratley Islands has taken place from Layang-Layang, which I believe is claimed by Malaysia. I don't know how long that will last.

73, Zack W9SZ


On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 2:24 PM Don N4KC <don@...> wrote:
The Chinese military has dramatically increased the size of some reefs and islets in the South China Sea, including putting airstrips and buildings on former reefs that were often under water. It is all part of their claim that they are their possessions. They have also released a map showing what they call the "12-segment dotted line," which shows a dotted line from Hainan Island down the coast of Vietnam, around the South China Sea and to just northeast of Taiwan, which they say represents Chinese territorial waters. Most nations in the region as well as the U.S.A.--and especially Taiwan!--vociferously disagree. I don't think there has been any buildup on Scarborough but it is certainly within the claimed Chinese territory. But it does muddy the water (pun intended) politically and DXCC-award wise.
I'm not familiar enough with DXCC rules, but I'd figure if China does have a flag on every reef, shoal and turtle in the South China Sea, then none of them would be a separate entity. Even if somebody is willing to risk his life and go operate from a scaffold on a hunk of coral out there. Hams have been killed in that area, you know. 
(I'm currently writing a submarine thriller set in the area and watch with great interest. Of course, still needing about 20 countries confirmed to get to DXCC Honor Roll makes me follow developments there, too. I'm for making anything that would hold a vertical an "entity." I figure if United Nations Headquarters is a "country" then why not Staten Island and the upper peninsula of Michigan? [I hope you all know I'm not serious. Because some of you do take this stuff wayyyyy too seriously.])
73,
Don Keith N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
  
  


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Reefs?

 

The Chinese military has dramatically increased the size of some reefs and islets in the South China Sea, including putting airstrips and buildings on former reefs that were often under water. It is all part of their claim that they are their possessions. They have also released a map showing what they call the "12-segment dotted line," which shows a dotted line from Hainan Island down the coast of Vietnam, around the South China Sea and to just northeast of Taiwan, which they say represents Chinese territorial waters. Most nations in the region as well as the U.S.A.--and especially Taiwan!--vociferously disagree. I don't think there has been any buildup on Scarborough but it is certainly within the claimed Chinese territory. But it does muddy the water (pun intended) politically and DXCC-award wise.
I'm not familiar enough with DXCC rules, but I'd figure if China does have a flag on every reef, shoal and turtle in the South China Sea, then none of them would be a separate entity. Even if somebody is willing to risk his life and go operate from a scaffold on a hunk of coral out there. Hams have been killed in that area, you know. 
(I'm currently writing a submarine thriller set in the area and watch with great interest. Of course, still needing about 20 countries confirmed to get to DXCC Honor Roll makes me follow developments there, too. I'm for making anything that would hold a vertical an "entity." I figure if United Nations Headquarters is a "country" then why not Staten Island and the upper peninsula of Michigan? [I hope you all know I'm not serious. Because some of you do take this stuff wayyyyy too seriously.])
73,
Don Keith N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
  
  


Re: Reefs?

Hugh Valentine <N4RJ@...>
 

Water can simply rise, or the constant wave action with little substrate will wash it away…

 

Val

 

N4RJ

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Skip
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 3:55 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] Reefs?

 

I wasn't asking if it should or should not have been allowed ... I just wondered if it was now submerged below low tide or not.  From the photo I have, if it is underwater at low tide now, the sea level has risen way more than the data that have been recently published.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/23/2020 11:37 AM, W0MU wrote:

It Should never have been allowed.  There needs to be a land mass area criteria added.  BS7 was all BS politics.

W0MU

On 9/23/2020 12:01 PM, Skip wrote:

Does anyone actually know that the rock that held the scaffold in the photo I have of W6RGG working the world at BS7H ["Rock #3?"] is *really* underwater now?  It looks like it's maybe a meter above the water in the photo.  Tides aren't large in the S. China Sea and I didn't think the MSL rise since then has been that much.  I tried Google Earth but there are so many reefs and very shallow spots in that region, I couldn't tell, and of course GE may be an old photo.  Just curious.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/22/2020 5:03 PM, Tony KX1G wrote:

My concern with BS7 is the possibility it may never be on their air again if it remains underwater. 

Guess I will have to wait and see.

Makes me wonder if I can will my contacts to a relative who can work bs7 and add it to my total posthumously. 


73
tony kx1g

 

 

 


Pete Rimmel, N8PR, Rest in Peace

Barry Porter KB1PA
 


Re: Reefs?

Skip
 

I wasn't asking if it should or should not have been allowed ... I just wondered if it was now submerged below low tide or not.  From the photo I have, if it is underwater at low tide now, the sea level has risen way more than the data that have been recently published.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/23/2020 11:37 AM, W0MU wrote:

It Should never have been allowed.  There needs to be a land mass area criteria added.  BS7 was all BS politics.

W0MU

On 9/23/2020 12:01 PM, Skip wrote:
Does anyone actually know that the rock that held the scaffold in the photo I have of W6RGG working the world at BS7H ["Rock #3?"] is *really* underwater now?  It looks like it's maybe a meter above the water in the photo.  Tides aren't large in the S. China Sea and I didn't think the MSL rise since then has been that much.  I tried Google Earth but there are so many reefs and very shallow spots in that region, I couldn't tell, and of course GE may be an old photo.  Just curious.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/22/2020 5:03 PM, Tony KX1G wrote:

My concern with BS7 is the possibility it may never be on their air again if it remains underwater. 

Guess I will have to wait and see.

Makes me wonder if I can will my contacts to a relative who can work bs7 and add it to my total posthumously. 


73
tony kx1g




Re: Reefs?

Ria, N2RJ
 


That is heavily disputed.

73
Ria
N2RJ 

On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 3:03 PM Steven Rutledge <steven.t.rutledge@...> wrote:










Honestly, that might be the rock that is now a Chinese air force

base.  I think the area has been altered significantly.  I might

be wrong. 




Steve, N4JQQ, DXAC, Delta Division




On 9/23/2020 1:01 PM, Skip wrote:








Does anyone actually know that the rock that

held the scaffold in the photo I have of W6RGG working the world

at BS7H ["Rock #3?"] is *really* underwater now?  It looks like

it's maybe a meter above the water in the photo.  Tides aren't

large in the S. China Sea and I didn't think the MSL rise since

then has been that much.  I tried Google Earth but there are so

many reefs and very shallow spots in that region, I couldn't

tell, and of course GE may be an old photo.  Just curious.





73,





Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW


Sparks NV DM09dn


Washoe County





On 9/22/2020 5:03 PM, Tony KX1G

wrote:








My concern with BS7 is the possibility it may never be on

their air again if it remains underwater. 





Guess I will have to wait and see.



Makes me wonder if I can will my contacts to a relative who

can work bs7 and add it to my total posthumously. 






73


tony kx1g




























Re: Reefs?

Steven Rutledge <steven.t.rutledge@...>
 

Honestly, that might be the rock that is now a Chinese air force base.  I think the area has been altered significantly.  I might be wrong. 

Steve, N4JQQ, DXAC, Delta Division

On 9/23/2020 1:01 PM, Skip wrote:

Does anyone actually know that the rock that held the scaffold in the photo I have of W6RGG working the world at BS7H ["Rock #3?"] is *really* underwater now?  It looks like it's maybe a meter above the water in the photo.  Tides aren't large in the S. China Sea and I didn't think the MSL rise since then has been that much.  I tried Google Earth but there are so many reefs and very shallow spots in that region, I couldn't tell, and of course GE may be an old photo.  Just curious.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/22/2020 5:03 PM, Tony KX1G wrote:

My concern with BS7 is the possibility it may never be on their air again if it remains underwater. 

Guess I will have to wait and see.

Makes me wonder if I can will my contacts to a relative who can work bs7 and add it to my total posthumously. 


73
tony kx1g




Re: Reefs?

W0MU
 

It Should never have been allowed.  There needs to be a land mass area criteria added.  BS7 was all BS politics.

W0MU

On 9/23/2020 12:01 PM, Skip wrote:

Does anyone actually know that the rock that held the scaffold in the photo I have of W6RGG working the world at BS7H ["Rock #3?"] is *really* underwater now?  It looks like it's maybe a meter above the water in the photo.  Tides aren't large in the S. China Sea and I didn't think the MSL rise since then has been that much.  I tried Google Earth but there are so many reefs and very shallow spots in that region, I couldn't tell, and of course GE may be an old photo.  Just curious.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/22/2020 5:03 PM, Tony KX1G wrote:

My concern with BS7 is the possibility it may never be on their air again if it remains underwater. 

Guess I will have to wait and see.

Makes me wonder if I can will my contacts to a relative who can work bs7 and add it to my total posthumously. 


73
tony kx1g





Re: Reefs?

Skip
 

Does anyone actually know that the rock that held the scaffold in the photo I have of W6RGG working the world at BS7H ["Rock #3?"] is *really* underwater now?  It looks like it's maybe a meter above the water in the photo.  Tides aren't large in the S. China Sea and I didn't think the MSL rise since then has been that much.  I tried Google Earth but there are so many reefs and very shallow spots in that region, I couldn't tell, and of course GE may be an old photo.  Just curious.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/22/2020 5:03 PM, Tony KX1G wrote:

My concern with BS7 is the possibility it may never be on their air again if it remains underwater. 

Guess I will have to wait and see.

Makes me wonder if I can will my contacts to a relative who can work bs7 and add it to my total posthumously. 


73
tony kx1g




Re: Reefs?

tonydicenzo
 

On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 05:30 PM, n5qs wrote:
Countries where it is ILLEGAL to operate should be removed because the government cant
authorize a legal operation without changing the law.
Countries where the dictator does not allow operations should not because the dictator
can authorize an operation at any time and therefore it is not totally impossible.
+1 Excellent summary. SUpport this 100%. 

I started this discussion, but after hearing so many condescending views I am dropping out of it and possibly out of the Awards discussion entirely. I don't need to be talked down to. Or trivialized because I want the DXCC program to be more fair.  Not easier; more fair.

The tactic to position everyone who asks as quesion or offers a suggestion as a whiner or wanting to make DXCC easy is disturbing to say the least. Those that do that ought to be severely repremanded by the league or at least blocked from the discussion.  

I know of at least one TOP OF THE HONOR ROLL ham who hung up his key, dismantled his station, and quit cold turkey as a resulf of being disgusted with DXCC politics. It seems clear more will do the same thing.

The league should consider that as the #1 issue.


Re: Reefs?

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

Yes,

This whole issue has been interesting and randomly evolving.

I have been a ham for 64 years. There has always been a modicum of discussion/criticism of this award and opinions and suggestions
made.

But, never in my previous decades, have I seen so much as …. discussed the last few years…and NO…..I would disagree with a notion
that …”Well, now we have an official forum so there is more traffic on the issues”

Perhaps the award has been so convoluted with issues of late…like rapid growth of new technologies, fragile world government
complexities, and the competitive nuances like remote operations.

Perhaps an economic disparity among members of the hobby is an issue…heck…most of us had to build our own gear back in the 50s. A
rarity in 2020.



Clearly, this award is under more scrutiny and than criticism than ever before, in my memory anyway…and I have been pretty active.

ARRL has trouble administering the award due to massive IT and LOTW maintenance costs.? Not certain, just feeling.

+ As a result of management naiveté, the ARRL has hideously underfunded and understaffed most of its software projects, not just
those associated with awards. You reap what you sow.

+ Outside of www.ARRL.org and the pages of QST, the ARRL does not promote DXCC or any of its other DXing awards in any significant
manner.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

- member, ARRL LoTW Committee: 2013-2018

- member, ARRL Communications with Members Committee: 2019

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