Date   

Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

@Bert18
 

QRP DXCC vs DXCC is not entirely analogous. The QRP DXCC does not require QSL confirmations.

-----Original Message-----
From: ARRL-Awards@groups.arrl.org <ARRL-Awards@groups.arrl.org> On Behalf Of Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 12:59 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@groups.arrl.org
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

+ AA6YQ comments below


There is a QRP DXCC award. There is also a mobile DXCC award. These are essentially overlay awards on top of regular DXCC.



+ The QRP DXCC award provides a precedent for the proposed "Single Area Endorsement": it distinguishes DXers who have attained the DXCC award using low power, just as the proposed "Single Area Endorsement" would distinguish DXers who have attained their DXCC awards from within a single area.



+ Note: it would be nice if the description of the DXCC award program in



<http://www.arrl.org/dxcc-rules>



+ at least mentioned the DXCC QRP award, which is separately described in



<http://www.arrl.org/qrp-dxcc>





73,



Dave, AA6YQ


Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

Zack Widup
 

Alaska, Hawaii and the KP and KH entities are all separate DXCC entities. You can't get DXCC for operating from KH6 by operating in a site in continental USA. Same goes for most of those other tiny entities. They are their own DXCC entities and you must operate from them to get a DXCC for a location in those entities.

73. Zack W9SZ

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:57 PM NE5B - Ben <Ne5b@...> wrote:
How fair is allowing the use of remote stations in Maine Florida and California to those hams in Alaska Hawaii or other entities Many of which are less than 200 Miles  from corner to corner?

I’ve been a ham for only 26 years applied for 5BWAS and DXCC just a few months ago using LOTW confirmed QSOs mostly from SSB contactd made in the past 2 years combined with 40 something ft8 contacts made in the last 11 months.  All done with wire antennas.   Hope to have a tower up by year end and a decent bean by summer 2021.  

From what someone was saying earlier  I should be one of those jumping up and down cheering the possibility of renting remote stations since that is probably the only way I’ll break 200 countries or even get single band DXCC. 

I was a scout for a few years then in my early adult years I helped a few less fortunate scouts “earn” merit badges they didn’t have parents with time to help.   
Scouts are supposed to build their own pinewood derby cars every one is supposed to start with the same kit.   I was very disappointed when I realized many with the slick fast cars bought them already built.    

My true feelings about DXCC is if you move for what ever reason Or use a remote station more that perhaps a state away you should start your count all over again.   You still have bragging rights of having worked some of the same countries from each of your locations so you might claim to have 640 DXCC countriesWith the dupes.   But your count is your count from your Current home QTH.  

73 de Ben ne5B


On Sep 2, 2020, at 17:55, H Hans Brakob <hbrakob@...> wrote:


What you did is not diminished by what someone else did.

Get over it.

HB

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Hugh Valentine <hsvdds@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:16:03 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone
 

6M remote

Right, I agree.  I worked 67 on 6  using 50w in 3 seasons with CW and SSB,  FT8 came along, I put up a stealth 6 ele at 20’ and now I am at 110 countries…I decoded but did not get another 14 this season.  Those would be in the log had I used Remote on both coasts…Come on…I’m certain you would agree. I would have felt less was accomplished using remotes.  I have sat at my HOA restricted QTH and through persistence and skill and am very proud of that accomplishment.  I would not be as proud(my personal thing) using someone else’s gear, time, money, work, equipment  anywhere within 3,119,884.69 square miles and get a bigger total.  I did mine on 1.56 Ac in a restricted environment…even worked E5 with a dipole and his signal was in/out in 15 seconds…Quick QSO, but I am a Ham O-Holic and readily admit it-  Kinda proud of it actually….a DXCC which would allow me to use a remote anywhere and/or EME to get those totals would diminish the value of doing it on my little lot.

 

I’ve had 23 Acres and 9 towers but I actually like the challenge now with wires….”A man who chops his own wood is twice warmed”

Remoting  would be fish in a barrel on 6M.  EME, if you man it yourself + remoting anywhere within 3,119,884.69 square miles…if that ain’t shooting Fish I don’t know what it is…ain’t easy, but has no comparison to a single location.

 

DXCC 160 and 6M are very affected by allowing home and remote use.  Easier is an understatement when it comes to those two bands especially.

 

Val

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Steven R Daniel, D.D.S.
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:51 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

That is not correct Val. Between RHR and my 9 elements at 80’ I spent hours and hours on 6 during the E season this year. The net result? Four new entities, getting me up to about 127 or so.

It’s not fish in a barrel by friend!

Steve

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... [mailto:ARRL-Awards@...] On Behalf Of Hugh Valentine
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 9:29 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

Minimal

 

Val

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jack Roberts - KD9OPV
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:00 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

Ben and Val,


You do realize that it still takes effort and skill to earn a DXCC via a remote right? It’s not like getting a subscription to a remote radio service comes with a free DXCC and honor roll, that would be crazy. Oh and the superstations comments, why don’t we ban everyone who uses over 10w and anything better than a dipole 15ft off the ground? Isn’t that what you want? To level the playing field?

Respectfully,
Jack KD9OPV

 

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: More guessing??

K8TS
 

@Jack Roberts - KD9OPV

An Elmer once taught me that it is not the amount of aluminum, nor the power, but what’s between the headphones is the most powerful tool you have.  Sure the others are important, but I have often seen good operators out-gun a super station with less power.  Often it’s because he/she has learned the intracity of listening and following the DX in the pile.  One call and in the log.  Suggested reading between classes:  The Complete DX’er, by Bob Lochner.  Easy read, lot’s of info. Every DX’er should have a read copy on his/her shelf.

Dale-K8TS

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Steven Rutledge
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 8:45 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] More guessing??

 

Sorry for the confusion.  Yes, DXAC is not taking the proposal for any action.  It was sent back to the PSC and they and the board can still act on it. 

Steve, N4JQQ, DXAC, Delta

On 9/2/2020 7:40 PM, Jamie WW3S wrote:

Lou, Dave, Ria, et al....thanks, I was confused by the comment below.....

 

------ Original Message ------

From: "Steven Rutledge" <steven.t.rutledge@...>

Sent: 9/2/2020 3:36:24 PM

Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] More guessing??

 

Jack, has it been stated anywhere here that you can't use a remote or couldn't use a remote to work DXCC?  I don't believe I've seen that.  The conversation has moved on.  DXAC is not taking up the proposal.  Its now in the hands of the PSC and the BOD.  Why don't you turn your attention to what Dave is proposing.  I think that is a single location endorsement.  I might not have stated it as well as he did and I might have the details incorrect.  That could satisfy a lot of folks.

Steve, N4JQQ, DXAC, Delta

On 9/2/2020 9:16 AM, Jack Roberts - KD9OPV wrote:

Val,

We’ve been saying for the last 2 weeks that while we would love to work on our own station or advance our operating skills, without the money to do that it’s practically impossible. As a 15 year old without a job currently, I simply don’t have the money to build a station that can hold its own in a contest or even have a chance at earning a DXCC. Another issue is that I live in an HOA and cannot put up an antenna at all. So that why I turn to remotes, so I can practice my skills, and earn awards, that when I eventually do have the money and location to build a station, I won’t be behind. How hard is it to see that remotes are a good thing and aren’t a threat to anyone besides certain people’s egos. 


Jack, KD9OPV

 


Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

K8TS
 

There is always an exception: A W8xxx faithfully only calls when DX calls 8-land only.  DX quits calling 8-land because he has lost prop and is now only calling coastal stations, W1,W2, etc.  However, this W8 happens to live in FL, so has to add the /4 to get back in the “pile”.  Not that common, but happens.  He never gets in the log because the DX regards him as calling out of turn.  Personally, I have even thought of having my wife record my voice keyer.  That could create chaos though, called by an male, answered by female!

Dale, K8TS

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Steven R Daniel, D.D.S.
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 6:24 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

Or how about the guys who were suddenly “portable” when the DX was going by call areas? I seem to remember that one as well.

Hey, then it would not just be propagation shopping. It would be call area shopping!

Steve, NN4T

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... [mailto:ARRL-Awards@...] On Behalf Of H Hans Brakob
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2020 12:12 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

That ain’t fair!

 

From: Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 05:05
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

+ AA6YQ comments below

 

Conversely, it isn’t fair that N2RJ has a female voice which “stands out” in the pileups and influences the DX to work her station before my gravely old male voice in the same pileup.

 

+ I've heard that sometime before I got my ticket, a DXpedition operator in Yemen with an enormous and unruly SSB pileup came back with "the YL only, please", after which the entire pileup responded in falsetto.

 

       73,

 

            Dave, AA6YQ

 

 

 

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™

 


Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

bmanning
 

Hans

To go along with your comments about being fair. What about an ON, Belgian, station, he can work several DXCC entities on 6, 10 and 12 meters just on ground wave, simply because of where he lives. I have said it before DXCC is not fair it can never be fair. The WRTC is probably the closest we can come to a fair DX competition.

73

 Bruce NJ3K

On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 04:26:47 +0000, H Hans Brakob <hbrakob@...> wrote:

You can only claim credit for remote controlled QSO's where the remotely controlled transmitter is located in your DXCC entity.

 

For example, a station in the "lower 48" can only use a remote transmitter which is located in the "lower 48".

 

A station located in Alaska can only feed his Alaska DXCC with QSO's where the remote transmitter is located in Alaska.  (Alaska is an "entity" of it's own)

 

Same thing with Hawaii.  A Hawaii DXCC can only be fed with Hawaii transmitter locations. 

 

Neither Hawaii or Alaska can claim credit for a QSO accomplished on a remote transmitter in Maine.

 

Now to the issue of "fair".

 

DXCC is NOT fair. 

 

A station running 5W is at a 25dB disadvantage to his neighbor down the block running a legal limit (assuming equivalent antennas).  That ain't fair, but there's no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

A station in the middle of North America is at disadvantage to a station in the middle of Europe, based on the sheer number of DXCC entities on their respective continents, and the proximity of nearby continents.  That ain't fair, but there's no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

There are many more DXCC entities within 3,000 miles of Boston than there are DXCC entities within 3,000 miles of Calgary.  .  That ain't fair, but there's no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

DXCC is NOT fair. 

 

--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™

 

 

 

From: NE5B - Ben

  • How fair is allowing the use of remote stations in Maine Florida and California to those hams in Alaska Hawaii or other entities Many of which are less than 200 Miles  from corner to corner?

 

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™

-- 
Bruce A. Manning


Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

Steven R Daniel, D.D.S.
 

Or how about the guys who were suddenly “portable” when the DX was going by call areas? I seem to remember that one as well.

Hey, then it would not just be propagation shopping. It would be call area shopping!

Steve, NN4T

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... [mailto:ARRL-Awards@...] On Behalf Of H Hans Brakob
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2020 12:12 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

That ain’t fair!

 

From: Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 05:05
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

+ AA6YQ comments below

 

Conversely, it isn’t fair that N2RJ has a female voice which “stands out” in the pileups and influences the DX to work her station before my gravely old male voice in the same pileup.

 

+ I've heard that sometime before I got my ticket, a DXpedition operator in Yemen with an enormous and unruly SSB pileup came back with "the YL only, please", after which the entire pileup responded in falsetto.

 

       73,

 

            Dave, AA6YQ

 

 

 

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™


Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

Hans Brakob
 

That ain’t fair!

 

From: Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 05:05
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

+ AA6YQ comments below

 

Conversely, it isn’t fair that N2RJ has a female voice which “stands out” in the pileups and influences the DX to work her station before my gravely old male voice in the same pileup.

 

+ I've heard that sometime before I got my ticket, a DXpedition operator in Yemen with an enormous and unruly SSB pileup came back with "the YL only, please", after which the entire pileup responded in falsetto.

 

       73,

 

            Dave, AA6YQ

 

 

 

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™


Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

Conversely, it isn’t fair that N2RJ has a female voice which “stands out” in the pileups and influences the DX to work her station before my gravely old male voice in the same pileup.

+ I've heard that sometime before I got my ticket, a DXpedition operator in Yemen with an enormous and unruly SSB pileup came back with "the YL only, please", after which the entire pileup responded in falsetto.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below


There is a QRP DXCC award. There is also a mobile DXCC award. These are essentially overlay awards on top of regular DXCC.



+ The QRP DXCC award provides a precedent for the proposed "Single Area Endorsement": it distinguishes DXers who have attained the DXCC award using low power, just as the proposed "Single Area Endorsement" would distinguish DXers who have attained their DXCC awards from within a single area.



+ Note: it would be nice if the description of the DXCC award program in



<http://www.arrl.org/dxcc-rules>



+ at least mentioned the DXCC QRP award, which is separately described in



<http://www.arrl.org/qrp-dxcc>





73,



Dave, AA6YQ


Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

Ria, N2RJ
 

My voice doesn’t stand out like a boomy male voice. I have to use tons of compression to get through.

However most of my DXing is on CW and FT8 anyway.

Ria
N2RJ 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:48 AM H Hans Brakob <hbrakob@...> wrote:

 

 

From: Ria, N2RJ
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 04:33
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

 

 fair.  

 A station running 5W is at a 25dB disadvantage to his neighbor down the block running a legal limit (assuming equivalent antennas).  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.”

There is a QRP DXCC award. There is also a mobile DXCC award. These are essentially overlay awards on top of regular DXCC.

 

Ria

N2RJ 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn’t realize that there is a QRP DXCC certificate.  My bad!

So belay my last as regards the “unfairness” of HP vs QRP.

But my point stands.  DXCC is not a “level playing field”, and each DXCC award is a personal accomplishment where the environment contains countless variable, many not under the operators control.

It isn’t fair that I’ve been licensed longer than N2RJ, and have worked entities which have not been on the air since she was licensed.  (Who ever heard of a contest where the “competition” was allowed a 35-year head start?)

Conversely, it isn’t fair that N2RJ has a female voice which “stands out” in the pileups and influences the DX to work her station before my gravely old male voice in the same pileup.

 

 




--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™








Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

Hans Brakob
 

 

 

From: Ria, N2RJ
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 04:33
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

 

 fair.  

 A station running 5W is at a 25dB disadvantage to his neighbor down the block running a legal limit (assuming equivalent antennas).  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.”

There is a QRP DXCC award. There is also a mobile DXCC award. These are essentially overlay awards on top of regular DXCC.

 

Ria

N2RJ 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn’t realize that there is a QRP DXCC certificate.  My bad!

So belay my last as regards the “unfairness” of HP vs QRP.

But my point stands.  DXCC is not a “level playing field”, and each DXCC award is a personal accomplishment where the environment contains countless variable, many not under the operators control.

It isn’t fair that I’ve been licensed longer than N2RJ, and have worked entities which have not been on the air since she was licensed.  (Who ever heard of a contest where the “competition” was allowed a 35-year head start?)

Conversely, it isn’t fair that N2RJ has a female voice which “stands out” in the pileups and influences the DX to work her station before my gravely old male voice in the same pileup.

 

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™


Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

Dick
 

There's a Mobile DXCC Award ?? First I have heard of that one.

73, Dick, W1KSZ


From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 9:33 PM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone
 

 fair.  

 

A station running 5W is at a 25dB disadvantage to his neighbor down the block running a legal limit (assuming equivalent antennas).  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.”

There is a QRP DXCC award. There is also a mobile DXCC award. These are essentially overlay awards on top of regular DXCC.


Ria

N2RJ 


On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:26 AM H Hans Brakob <hbrakob@...> wrote:

You can only claim credit for remote controlled QSO’s where the remotely controlled transmitter is located in your DXCC entity.

 

For example, a station in the “lower 48” can only use a remote transmitter which is located in the “lower 48”.

 

A station located in Alaska can only feed his Alaska DXCC with QSO’s where the remote transmitter is located in Alaska.  (Alaska is an “entity” of it’s own)

 

Same thing with Hawaii.  A Hawaii DXCC can only be fed with Hawaii transmitter locations. 

 

Neither Hawaii or Alaska can claim credit for a QSO accomplished on a remote transmitter in Maine.

 

Now to the issue of “fair”.

 

DXCC is NOT fair. 

 

A station running 5W is at a 25dB disadvantage to his neighbor down the block running a legal limit (assuming equivalent antennas).  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

A station in the middle of North America is at disadvantage to a station in the middle of Europe, based on the sheer number of DXCC entities on their respective continents, and the proximity of nearby continents.  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

There are many more DXCC entities within 3,000 miles of Boston than there are DXCC entities within 3,000 miles of Calgary.  .  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

DXCC is NOT fair. 

 

--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™

 

 

 

From: NE5B - Ben

  • How fair is allowing the use of remote stations in Maine Florida and California to those hams in Alaska Hawaii or other entities Many of which are less than 200 Miles  from corner to corner?

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™








Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

Ria, N2RJ
 


 fair.  

 

A station running 5W is at a 25dB disadvantage to his neighbor down the block running a legal limit (assuming equivalent antennas).  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.”

There is a QRP DXCC award. There is also a mobile DXCC award. These are essentially overlay awards on top of regular DXCC.


Ria

N2RJ 


On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:26 AM H Hans Brakob <hbrakob@...> wrote:

You can only claim credit for remote controlled QSO’s where the remotely controlled transmitter is located in your DXCC entity.

 

For example, a station in the “lower 48” can only use a remote transmitter which is located in the “lower 48”.

 

A station located in Alaska can only feed his Alaska DXCC with QSO’s where the remote transmitter is located in Alaska.  (Alaska is an “entity” of it’s own)

 

Same thing with Hawaii.  A Hawaii DXCC can only be fed with Hawaii transmitter locations. 

 

Neither Hawaii or Alaska can claim credit for a QSO accomplished on a remote transmitter in Maine.

 

Now to the issue of “fair”.

 

DXCC is NOT fair. 

 

A station running 5W is at a 25dB disadvantage to his neighbor down the block running a legal limit (assuming equivalent antennas).  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

A station in the middle of North America is at disadvantage to a station in the middle of Europe, based on the sheer number of DXCC entities on their respective continents, and the proximity of nearby continents.  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

There are many more DXCC entities within 3,000 miles of Boston than there are DXCC entities within 3,000 miles of Calgary.  .  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

DXCC is NOT fair. 

 

--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™

 

 

 

  • How fair is allowing the use of remote stations in Maine Florida and California to those hams in Alaska Hawaii or other entities Many of which are less than 200 Miles  from corner to corner?

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™








Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

Hans Brakob
 

You can only claim credit for remote controlled QSO’s where the remotely controlled transmitter is located in your DXCC entity.

 

For example, a station in the “lower 48” can only use a remote transmitter which is located in the “lower 48”.

 

A station located in Alaska can only feed his Alaska DXCC with QSO’s where the remote transmitter is located in Alaska.  (Alaska is an “entity” of it’s own)

 

Same thing with Hawaii.  A Hawaii DXCC can only be fed with Hawaii transmitter locations. 

 

Neither Hawaii or Alaska can claim credit for a QSO accomplished on a remote transmitter in Maine.

 

Now to the issue of “fair”.

 

DXCC is NOT fair. 

 

A station running 5W is at a 25dB disadvantage to his neighbor down the block running a legal limit (assuming equivalent antennas).  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

A station in the middle of North America is at disadvantage to a station in the middle of Europe, based on the sheer number of DXCC entities on their respective continents, and the proximity of nearby continents.  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

There are many more DXCC entities within 3,000 miles of Boston than there are DXCC entities within 3,000 miles of Calgary.  .  That ain’t fair, but there’s no difference in their DXCC certificate.

 

DXCC is NOT fair. 

 

--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™

 

 

 

  • How fair is allowing the use of remote stations in Maine Florida and California to those hams in Alaska Hawaii or other entities Many of which are less than 200 Miles  from corner to corner?

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™


Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

bmanning
 

Ben
I have 9 band DXCC, total current entities stands at 329, need 2 for honor roll,  DX Challenge stands at  1962. All with 100 watts, wire antennas and CW. So don't despair, if I can do that anyone can. 
73
Bruce NJ3K 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: NE5B - Ben <Ne5b@...>
Date: 9/2/20 22:57 (GMT-05:00)
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

How fair is allowing the use of remote stations in Maine Florida and California to those hams in Alaska Hawaii or other entities Many of which are less than 200 Miles  from corner to corner?

I’ve been a ham for only 26 years applied for 5BWAS and DXCC just a few months ago using LOTW confirmed QSOs mostly from SSB contactd made in the past 2 years combined with 40 something ft8 contacts made in the last 11 months.  All done with wire antennas.   Hope to have a tower up by year end and a decent bean by summer 2021.  

From what someone was saying earlier  I should be one of those jumping up and down cheering the possibility of renting remote stations since that is probably the only way I’ll break 200 countries or even get single band DXCC. 

I was a scout for a few years then in my early adult years I helped a few less fortunate scouts “earn” merit badges they didn’t have parents with time to help.   
Scouts are supposed to build their own pinewood derby cars every one is supposed to start with the same kit.   I was very disappointed when I realized many with the slick fast cars bought them already built.    

My true feelings about DXCC is if you move for what ever reason Or use a remote station more that perhaps a state away you should start your count all over again.   You still have bragging rights of having worked some of the same countries from each of your locations so you might claim to have 640 DXCC countriesWith the dupes.   But your count is your count from your Current home QTH.  

73 de Ben ne5B


On Sep 2, 2020, at 17:55, H Hans Brakob <hbrakob@...> wrote:


What you did is not diminished by what someone else did.

Get over it.

HB

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Hugh Valentine <hsvdds@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:16:03 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone
 

6M remote

Right, I agree.  I worked 67 on 6  using 50w in 3 seasons with CW and SSB,  FT8 came along, I put up a stealth 6 ele at 20’ and now I am at 110 countries…I decoded but did not get another 14 this season.  Those would be in the log had I used Remote on both coasts…Come on…I’m certain you would agree. I would have felt less was accomplished using remotes.  I have sat at my HOA restricted QTH and through persistence and skill and am very proud of that accomplishment.  I would not be as proud(my personal thing) using someone else’s gear, time, money, work, equipment  anywhere within 3,119,884.69 square miles and get a bigger total.  I did mine on 1.56 Ac in a restricted environment…even worked E5 with a dipole and his signal was in/out in 15 seconds…Quick QSO, but I am a Ham O-Holic and readily admit it-  Kinda proud of it actually….a DXCC which would allow me to use a remote anywhere and/or EME to get those totals would diminish the value of doing it on my little lot.

 

I’ve had 23 Acres and 9 towers but I actually like the challenge now with wires….”A man who chops his own wood is twice warmed”

Remoting  would be fish in a barrel on 6M.  EME, if you man it yourself + remoting anywhere within 3,119,884.69 square miles…if that ain’t shooting Fish I don’t know what it is…ain’t easy, but has no comparison to a single location.

 

DXCC 160 and 6M are very affected by allowing home and remote use.  Easier is an understatement when it comes to those two bands especially.

 

Val

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Steven R Daniel, D.D.S.
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:51 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

That is not correct Val. Between RHR and my 9 elements at 80’ I spent hours and hours on 6 during the E season this year. The net result? Four new entities, getting me up to about 127 or so.

It’s not fish in a barrel by friend!

Steve

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... [mailto:ARRL-Awards@...] On Behalf Of Hugh Valentine
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 9:29 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

Minimal

 

Val

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jack Roberts - KD9OPV
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:00 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

Ben and Val,


You do realize that it still takes effort and skill to earn a DXCC via a remote right? It’s not like getting a subscription to a remote radio service comes with a free DXCC and honor roll, that would be crazy. Oh and the superstations comments, why don’t we ban everyone who uses over 10w and anything better than a dipole 15ft off the ground? Isn’t that what you want? To level the playing field?

Respectfully,
Jack KD9OPV

 

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™


Re: How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

NE5B - Ben
 

How fair is allowing the use of remote stations in Maine Florida and California to those hams in Alaska Hawaii or other entities Many of which are less than 200 Miles  from corner to corner?

I’ve been a ham for only 26 years applied for 5BWAS and DXCC just a few months ago using LOTW confirmed QSOs mostly from SSB contactd made in the past 2 years combined with 40 something ft8 contacts made in the last 11 months.  All done with wire antennas.   Hope to have a tower up by year end and a decent bean by summer 2021.  

From what someone was saying earlier  I should be one of those jumping up and down cheering the possibility of renting remote stations since that is probably the only way I’ll break 200 countries or even get single band DXCC. 

I was a scout for a few years then in my early adult years I helped a few less fortunate scouts “earn” merit badges they didn’t have parents with time to help.   
Scouts are supposed to build their own pinewood derby cars every one is supposed to start with the same kit.   I was very disappointed when I realized many with the slick fast cars bought them already built.    

My true feelings about DXCC is if you move for what ever reason Or use a remote station more that perhaps a state away you should start your count all over again.   You still have bragging rights of having worked some of the same countries from each of your locations so you might claim to have 640 DXCC countriesWith the dupes.   But your count is your count from your Current home QTH.  

73 de Ben ne5B


On Sep 2, 2020, at 17:55, H Hans Brakob <hbrakob@...> wrote:


What you did is not diminished by what someone else did.

Get over it.

HB

From: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...> on behalf of Hugh Valentine <hsvdds@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:16:03 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@... <ARRL-Awards@...>
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone
 

6M remote

Right, I agree.  I worked 67 on 6  using 50w in 3 seasons with CW and SSB,  FT8 came along, I put up a stealth 6 ele at 20’ and now I am at 110 countries…I decoded but did not get another 14 this season.  Those would be in the log had I used Remote on both coasts…Come on…I’m certain you would agree. I would have felt less was accomplished using remotes.  I have sat at my HOA restricted QTH and through persistence and skill and am very proud of that accomplishment.  I would not be as proud(my personal thing) using someone else’s gear, time, money, work, equipment  anywhere within 3,119,884.69 square miles and get a bigger total.  I did mine on 1.56 Ac in a restricted environment…even worked E5 with a dipole and his signal was in/out in 15 seconds…Quick QSO, but I am a Ham O-Holic and readily admit it-  Kinda proud of it actually….a DXCC which would allow me to use a remote anywhere and/or EME to get those totals would diminish the value of doing it on my little lot.

 

I’ve had 23 Acres and 9 towers but I actually like the challenge now with wires….”A man who chops his own wood is twice warmed”

Remoting  would be fish in a barrel on 6M.  EME, if you man it yourself + remoting anywhere within 3,119,884.69 square miles…if that ain’t shooting Fish I don’t know what it is…ain’t easy, but has no comparison to a single location.

 

DXCC 160 and 6M are very affected by allowing home and remote use.  Easier is an understatement when it comes to those two bands especially.

 

Val

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Steven R Daniel, D.D.S.
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:51 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

That is not correct Val. Between RHR and my 9 elements at 80’ I spent hours and hours on 6 during the E season this year. The net result? Four new entities, getting me up to about 127 or so.

It’s not fish in a barrel by friend!

Steve

 

From: ARRL-Awards@... [mailto:ARRL-Awards@...] On Behalf Of Hugh Valentine
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 9:29 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

Minimal

 

Val

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jack Roberts - KD9OPV
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:00 AM
To: ARRL-Awards@...
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] How about DXCC honor Roll for everyone

 

Ben and Val,


You do realize that it still takes effort and skill to earn a DXCC via a remote right? It’s not like getting a subscription to a remote radio service comes with a free DXCC and honor roll, that would be crazy. Oh and the superstations comments, why don’t we ban everyone who uses over 10w and anything better than a dipole 15ft off the ground? Isn’t that what you want? To level the playing field?

Respectfully,
Jack KD9OPV

 

 


--
73, de Hans, K0HB
"Just a Boy and His Radio"™


Re: More guessing??

Steven Rutledge
 

Sorry for the confusion.  Yes, DXAC is not taking the proposal for any action.  It was sent back to the PSC and they and the board can still act on it. 

Steve, N4JQQ, DXAC, Delta

On 9/2/2020 7:40 PM, Jamie WW3S wrote:
Lou, Dave, Ria, et al....thanks, I was confused by the comment below.....

------ Original Message ------
From: "Steven Rutledge" <steven.t.rutledge@...>
Sent: 9/2/2020 3:36:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] More guessing??

Jack, has it been stated anywhere here that you can't use a remote or couldn't use a remote to work DXCC?  I don't believe I've seen that.  The conversation has moved on.  DXAC is not taking up the proposal.  Its now in the hands of the PSC and the BOD.  Why don't you turn your attention to what Dave is proposing.  I think that is a single location endorsement.  I might not have stated it as well as he did and I might have the details incorrect.  That could satisfy a lot of folks.

Steve, N4JQQ, DXAC, Delta

On 9/2/2020 9:16 AM, Jack Roberts - KD9OPV wrote:

Val,

We’ve been saying for the last 2 weeks that while we would love to work on our own station or advance our operating skills, without the money to do that it’s practically impossible. As a 15 year old without a job currently, I simply don’t have the money to build a station that can hold its own in a contest or even have a chance at earning a DXCC. Another issue is that I live in an HOA and cannot put up an antenna at all. So that why I turn to remotes, so I can practice my skills, and earn awards, that when I eventually do have the money and location to build a station, I won’t be behind. How hard is it to see that remotes are a good thing and aren’t a threat to anyone besides certain people’s egos. 


Jack, KD9OPV


Re: More guessing??

Jamie WW3S
 

Lou, Dave, Ria, et al....thanks, I was confused by the comment below.....

------ Original Message ------
From: "Steven Rutledge" <steven.t.rutledge@...>
Sent: 9/2/2020 3:36:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ARRL-Awards] More guessing??

Jack, has it been stated anywhere here that you can't use a remote or couldn't use a remote to work DXCC?  I don't believe I've seen that.  The conversation has moved on.  DXAC is not taking up the proposal.  Its now in the hands of the PSC and the BOD.  Why don't you turn your attention to what Dave is proposing.  I think that is a single location endorsement.  I might not have stated it as well as he did and I might have the details incorrect.  That could satisfy a lot of folks.

Steve, N4JQQ, DXAC, Delta

On 9/2/2020 9:16 AM, Jack Roberts - KD9OPV wrote:

Val,

We’ve been saying for the last 2 weeks that while we would love to work on our own station or advance our operating skills, without the money to do that it’s practically impossible. As a 15 year old without a job currently, I simply don’t have the money to build a station that can hold its own in a contest or even have a chance at earning a DXCC. Another issue is that I live in an HOA and cannot put up an antenna at all. So that why I turn to remotes, so I can practice my skills, and earn awards, that when I eventually do have the money and location to build a station, I won’t be behind. How hard is it to see that remotes are a good thing and aren’t a threat to anyone besides certain people’s egos. 


Jack, KD9OPV


Re: More guessing??

Ria, N2RJ
 


Not dead unless the PSC declares it dead. Even if DXAC comes back and says they recommend against it.

Afaik the PSC hasn’t met yet concerning this

Ria
N2RJ 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 7:53 PM Jamie WW3S <ww3s@...> wrote:
Ok, I’m confused....I though the proposal was to prevent contacts made thru a remote ( never saw a definition of a remote, but mode seemed to think it was commercially available remote stations) to count towards DXCC. I believe it was a director (southeast) , N4MB, that made the proposal. Am I understanding that that proposal is dead?!?! It can still be taken up by the board, correct ?!?!


On Sep 2, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Steven Rutledge <steven.t.rutledge@...> wrote:











Jack, has it been stated anywhere here that you can't use a

remote or couldn't use a remote to work DXCC?  I don't believe

I've seen that.  The conversation has moved on.  DXAC is not

taking up the proposal.  Its now in the hands of the PSC and the

BOD.  Why don't you turn your attention to what Dave is

proposing.  I think that is a single location endorsement.  I

might not have stated it as well as he did and I might have the

details incorrect.  That could satisfy a lot of folks.



Steve, N4JQQ, DXAC, Delta




On 9/2/2020 9:16 AM, Jack Roberts -

KD9OPV wrote:








Val,





We’ve been saying for the last 2 weeks that while we would love

to work on our own station or advance our operating skills,

without the money to do that it’s practically impossible. As a

15 year old without a job currently, I simply don’t have the

money to build a station that can hold its own in a contest or

even have a chance at earning a DXCC. Another issue is that I

live in an HOA and cannot put up an antenna at all. So that why

I turn to remotes, so I can practice my skills, and earn awards,

that when I eventually do have the money and location to build a

station, I won’t be behind. How hard is it to see that remotes

are a good thing and aren’t a threat to anyone besides certain

people’s egos. 






Jack, KD9OPV


























Re: More guessing??

Lou Laderman W0FK
 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 06:53 PM, Jamie WW3S wrote:
Ok, I’m confused....I though the proposal was to prevent contacts made thru a remote ( never saw a definition of a remote, but mode seemed to think it was commercially available remote stations) to count towards DXCC. I believe it was a director (southeast) , N4MB, that made the proposal. Am I understanding that that proposal is dead?!?! It can still be taken up by the board, correct ?!?!
Below is the proposed rule, copied form N4MB's opening post elsewhere on this forum. It is not dead. K2CS posted the following in another thread on here copying an email he sent to you:
The DXAC has been in discussion and members have submitted suggestions from their constituents and feelings of their own.You may be aware that this would be the third time this has been asked of us to comment on. We (DXAC) do not have decision making powers, we are an advisory committee, final decisions are made at the PSC and ARRL BOD. I don't believe many understand that process. Our suggestions have been submitted and now we wait, along with everyone else.Best DX es 73,Chris, K2CS
Based on that, it's "in process", next step is to the Programs & Services Committee (PSC) and possibly to the full Board.

Here's the proposed rule:

Amend Section I, Rule 9, of the DXCC Rules which currently reads,

 “a) All stations used to make contacts for a specific DXCC award must be located within the same DXCC entity.”

 

To:

a) All station transmitters and receivers used to make contacts for a specific DXCC award on or after the date of adoption of this rule must be located within the same DXCC entity, with additional restrictions regarding remote operation.  Any and all remote contacts submitted for DXCC must be conducted with the transmitters and receivers:

1.     Within a circle with a radius of 200km from the applicant’s permanent address as shown on their license. If the license does not specify a geographic address, the radius center will be the post office serving the applicant. This provides for remote operation of an applicant’s primary station from anywhere, or an additional station within the circle, OR;

2.     Within a circle with a radius of 200km from the applicant’s location at the time of the contact. This provision provides for the travelling amateur, who often carries and establishes a temporary station, and the remote use of that station within 200km of the applicant’s location at the time of the contact, OR;

3.     A single additional geographic location specified by the applicant. This additional geographic location may be changed only once per consecutive year – once established by making a contact from a location only that location may be submitted for credit for one contiguous calendar year. An example would be the applicant may choose their own vacation home station operated remotely, or a single commercial remote superstation that is beyond the 200km from their home location. Multiple additional remote locations are not permitted to discourage “propagation shopping.”

 

All claimed DXCC Contacts Until the date of adoption of this rule, will be honored as per the prior rule in effect.

 

Amend Section I, Rule 11, of the DXCC Rules which currently reads:

11.  Issues concerning remotely controlled operating and DXCC are best dealt with by each individual carefully considering the ethical limits that he/she will accept for his/her DXCC and other operating awards.  As the premier operating award in Amateur Radio, DXCC draws intense scrutiny from its participants.  As DX chasers climb up the Standings there will be increased attention given to these achievements and the owner of these achievements needs to be comfortable standing behind his/her award and numbers.  Peer attention has always been a part of awards chasing, of course, but in these times with so many awards and so many players it is more important than ever to 'play the game' ethically.

 

Technological advances, while welcome, also add to the difficulty in defining rules for DXCC, but the intent of the rules is what is important.  It is never OK to remotely use a station outside of the 'home DXCC entity' to add to the home-entity DXCC totals -- just as it is never OK for you to ask someone else at another station in another place to make QSOs for you.  Remotely controlled stations must be properly licensed if they are to count for DXCC.  It will continue to be up to the operator to decide what types of legal remote control operating he/she will use (if any) to contribute to an operating award.

 

To the following:

11.  Issues concerning remotely controlled operating and DXCC are best dealt with by each individual carefully considering the limits defined by the DXCC and other operating awards.  As the premier operating award in Amateur Radio, DXCC draws intense scrutiny from its participants.  As DX chasers climb up the Standings there will be increased attention given to these achievements and the owner of these achievements needs to be comfortable standing behind his/her award and numbers.  Peer attention has always been a part of awards chasing, of course, but in these times with so many awards and so many players it is more important than ever to 'play the game' ethically.

 

Technological advances, while welcome, also add to the difficulty in defining rules for DXCC, but the intent of the rules is what is important.  It is never OK to remotely use a station outside of the 'home DXCC entity' to add to the home-entity DXCC totals -- just as it is never OK for you to ask someone else at another station in another place to make QSOs for you.  Remotely controlled stations must be properly licensed if they are to count for DXCC.  It will continue to be up to the operator to decide what types of legal remote control operating he/she will use (if any) to contribute to an operating award.
See https://groups.arrl.org/g/ARRL-Awards/message/441

73, Lou W0FK

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